Taking out the Kirov - AGM-65G FTW
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…HARPOON…
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It reminded me of this:
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Lukas: What’s that screenshot from?
Falcon 3.05, Operation “Fighting Tiger” - Kurile theater
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“BOOM! Seriously? Again? Let’s take a look at this AMCI footage. Ok, so there’s the SA-2 launch, There goes my HARM. What in the world is a SA-N-6? Wait, is that heading for me? I didn’t hear a launch tone. Holy cow those things go far! But why didn’t I hear a launch tone?”
Ah, I remember the day I learned that, as I watched my wingman explode over the ocean for no apparent reason.
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RWR can not always give a launch indication. If the system is working outside the working band of RWR, if the system do not use a defined missile up-link or no specific radar pattern/characteristics allowing to identify a possible launch, if the emitter is outside the RWR angular coverage, if the system is not present in the RWR library, if there are some ambiguities in the library with other systems … you will not have a launch indication… or sometimes, possible false (not implemented) launch indications.
Remember, RWRs are not made to “protect” yourself from (radar/radio assisted) SAMs, just a tool that will/should increase your survivability ratio.
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GBUs to sink the Kirov
Bomb attacks on a high threat tgt isn’t a good idea (low threat cargo vessels - maybe yeah) The best the falcon carries in BMS, as you’ve found out, is the Maverick. Falcons on a ship strike - … I don’t know, they aren’t built for that, but hey, improvisation is a good thing and they get the job done if flown good
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I’d like to see how this changes if BMS gets an update that allows these ships to engage incoming missiles, haha. SA-N-6/Standard variants/SA-N-9/SA-N-4/RAM/Sea Sparrow/ESSM are just a tiny slice of the tools available to modern warships that don’t break a sweat at killing slow, non-maneuvering missiles like the Maverick. You’ll have to overwhelm them by firing so many at once that they can’t engage them all before they hit – but that’s kind of a tall order!
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More complicated than that, as always…… depends on ship orientation at launch, detection of launch, state of readiness of the ship, etc. It does have some weapons, but there are been more successful antiship missile hits than “hard kill” by the defence. And these were active seeker missiles, not passive IR guidance like a Mav, although the missile launch smoke can be seen by the guys on watch.
TBH, I personnally think a fixed 50% chance of defence is almost as unrealistic as a fixed 0% And code the whole shebang would be … complicated
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Thanks for your timely post as I have just been working on the Kirov, and getting the ‘BOOM’ as you did. The closest I got was a run under 500 feet, but had a hard time seeing the ships on the MAV WPN page screen. So I popped up to 800 feet and only had time to launch two before the SA-N-6’s were coming at me. I’ve found success in the Korea theater under 1500 for most SA’s, and can even overfly hot targets if I’m going fast. Is there a minimum altitude I can stay under against the SA-N-6 from the Kirov so I can get in closer to get all 4 missiles off? Would Radar and ECM off help me get close?
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Great post rsparkyc! I’ve been on a bit of a SEAD Strike kick lately, but haven’t attempted the Kirov or any SA-10’s yet. Going NOE is one of my favorite things in BMS, so I’ll definitely take your lessons on board when I finally go for it.
Thanks for sharing.
Zep
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As soon as it appears I steal a barcap or task a harpoon strike if I got F18’s. F15E AGM-130 work too from long range. Boom
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EDIT: Thank you for your post. this is quite similar procedure for a single ship flight with 8 AGM-65D’s. didn’t try with 4 AGM-65G’s. will give it a try and see if it works. seems that Radar ON doesn’t make much difference as you can see. but it makes locating Kirov much easier than with just seeker head what in turn reduces workload.
–----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi,
Don’t know if it is still relevant since I find experienced pilots deal with Kirov quite easily and often.
also if someone finds mistake please correct me.I have been told by a fellow pilot that AGM-65D payload is more effective against “Kirov” than AGM-65G since you can take a payload of 8 AGM-65D’s instead of only 4 of AGM6-65G’s (don’t know if true since G variant is more powerfull).
so Yesterday I tried to check this out and to take out “Kirov” cruisers on the COOP FO server (BFB).
turns out it is pretty much easy, and I took down 2 of them. each on a single solo flight.my attack profile:
- ingress at 200ft AGL. Radar ON. ECM ON.
- Power AGMS’s early. then cycle thru each hard point with missile step and UNCAGE each missile. also EXPAND each missile’s FOV, this way you make sure that each Hardpoint is SOI beforehand and also you will see the ships clearly visually on the weapon screen.
- Avionics: Radar to SEA mode. then to SNOWPLOW mode with 20NM scan range. switch to CAT 1.
- at 30NM out of the attack steerpoint slow down to 350kts.
- at about 15-12NM you will begin see some small dots on the radar, usally at offset to the right or left of your main steerpoint becouse the ships are moving.
- EXPAND the radar View on the dots and you will see “Kirov” as a large dot surrounded by smaller dots.
- LOCK the large dot on radar (TMS UP) and then lock it once again (once more TMS UP) with AGM Seeker head.
8.) in few seconds you will be at range to fire AGM’s, begin to fire as soon you cross the AGM MAX range.
each following shot you need to press TMS UP to lock the next missile on the Target so the cross stops flashing. after you fired the first 4 missiles the next 4 need also to be UNCAGED before TMS UP and Fire. - once you fired all your missiles break hard and turn 180 back to your base with full Afterburner while popping chaff. try to preserve 200ft altitude during all the process.
- if done right and all 8 missiles hit the target you will see “Kirov” destroyed on debrief screen.
by flying 200ft altitude with ECM on, I have been able to get close up to 8-7NM from “Kirov” during the attack
without being shot at.CHECKED AND VERIFIED.
taking out the rest of the fleet on the next flight is a piece of cake. 3 AGM-65D’s per ship IIRC.
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OK, I made a check with AGM-65G’s. destroyed the last kirov (1ST FRY Task Force) in the COOP SERVER.
(I managed to close 5 NM on the ship without being fired upon.)My basic impression is that 8 AGM-65D’s do more damage than 4 AGM-65G’s.
for example - using the G variant inflicts just enough damage to make Kirov sink eventually. but the mission will
be failure since the campaign code does not recognize for some reason that Kirov was sank by me.using D variant payload, Kirov is destroyed on place and recognized as such by the campaign code.
USING G VARIANT:
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RECORD BEGIN TIMESTAMP 7/21/2015 16:31:06.
Game is Campaign type NetworkedMission Type: TASMO
Flight Unique Id: Fury1
1 Ship Flight
Ac type: F-16AM-BE
Contry: NATOLOADOUT 3: AGM-65G
Starting Load 4
Fired 4
Missed 0
Hit 4
Event AGM-65G released at 04:09:01@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65G released at 04:09:03@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65G released at 04:09:05@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65G released at 04:09:06@72hit Kirov - damagedUSING D VARIANT:
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RECORD BEGIN TIMESTAMP 7/21/2015 03:24:22.
Game is Campaign type NetworkedMission Type: TASMO
Flight Unique Id: Cowboy1
1 Ship Flight
Ac type: F-16C-52+CFT
Contry: NATOFLIGHT EVENTS
Event Elka joined as Cowboy11 at 14:46:17
Event FRY Kirov destroyed by Elka at 15:07:12
Event Elka landed at 15:12:54
Event Elka exited from Cowboy11 at 15:13:09LOADOUT 3: AGM-65D
Starting Load 8
Fired 8
Missed 0
Hit 8
Event AGM-65D released at 14:59:57@72hit Kirov - destroyed
Event AGM-65D released at 14:59:58@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 14:59:59@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 15:00:00@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 15:00:02@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 15:00:04@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 15:00:05@72hit Kirov - damaged
Event AGM-65D released at 15:00:07@72hit Kirov - damaged -
Kirov destroyed with one hit! Whoa…
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Both pretty silly, A really big ship like this should be able to soak up Mavs Gs without real trouble.
Mav Ds should hardly affect it at all. A lucky hit might start a fire or kill some crewmembers but do nothing to the structural integrity of the ship -
Both pretty silly, A really big ship like this should be able to soak up Mavs Gs without real trouble.
Mav Ds should hardly affect it at all. A lucky hit might start a fire or kill some crewmembers but do nothing to the structural integrity of the shipYou sure - modern ships are barely armored compared to battlehips of old - what is the armour plating around the ship out side of the reactor area?
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Yes, I am, a Ship like the Kirov can not be compared to the standard frigatte.
This thing is twice as long, twice as wide and had 6 times the displacement of an Oliver Hazard Perry.
the OHP got hot by two exocet and survived.The Exocet is a 670 kg specialized anti ship missile with a 165kg Warhead
The Mav-D weights 210kg and has a 57kg shaped charge warhead.
The Mav-G weights 305 kg and has a 136kg warhead which should do well against smaller warships. -
You will probably find the amount and type of damage depends on where it gets hit.
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First, you’re not getting inside 100 miles of the Kirov without taking SAM shots unless you’re stealthy. I doubt our ability to jam it and degrade its tracking inside of 50 miles. It may not be designed to withstand 16-inch armor piercing battleship shells, but what it has lost in armor it most likely makes up for with watertight integrity. Maybe 8 SLAMs would sink it and definitely JASSM or Tmahawks, but I don’t see mavericks being a credible threat, they are very slow weapons that shouldn’t pose any problem for targeting for its CIWS equivalent.