SEAD/DEAD Options for AAA and SAM
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Hello,
According to the F4 manual, we should be using DTOS to attack a AAA gun since radar will not detect it. Does this also apply to SAM missile launchers?
Do you carry a targeting pod to attack SAM launchers and AAA in DTOS? I can’t see a AAA gun or SAM launcher on the HUD until its too late for the toss.
We only get a 2 ship SEAD with no air support in the beginning on the korea campaign. This makes it difficult to achieve mission success unless I do multiple passes when using DTOS. The SAM launchers or AAA are always too far apart for a one pass CBU attack.
As an alternative, I have been using mavricks to take out the SAM launchers or AAA guns on one pass. How do you handle these 2 ship SEAD missions, maverick with one pass or DTOS MK20/CBU 87 with multiple passes?
“Why not just use CCRP? In CCRP you can find the target with the radar and do the same type of attack, but AAA guns around the airfield will probably not show up on the air-to-ground radar display” Original F4 Manual page 5-23
I appreciate the feedback!
Thank you
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SAM TELs will show up on radar. They are typically bigger than a tank… which also shows up on radar.
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Tying in with what Blu3wolf said I use AG FCR to initially locate the units. Even better if they have a Fire Can or other AAA radar so I can point the FCR in the right direction. Use the TGP to VID then you can set a markpoint to that cluster of units to attack at will and set up from a distance. Instead of using DTOS I tend to go with stand off range weapons if at all possible JDAM/Mavs as an example. If not those then CBU-87s or Mk-20s on non-moving targets from altitude ftw. Obviously if there is a SAM in the mix you want to get rid of it’s radar right off the get go to be able to take out the TELs with whatever you have. If you don’t have that option then what I tended to do it rope a dope the site by flying perpendicular to the site but just within it’s engagement envelope to see if I can get it to waste a shot on me. If so turn out and get outside of the envelope and trash the missile rinse and repeat. Obviously you could be doing that for quite some time if solo. If you have a partner in crime then you can do a variation on that theme with one pilot going rope a dope to get the site’s attention while the other actually attacks the site while it is preoccupied by the other aircraft. Many ways to skin this cat.
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Yep, remember that the original F4 manual was written for F-16s that did not carry high-resolution TGPs. So DTOS is a lot less useful today than it used to be. It’s only truly relevant if you choose to play an “old” mission, like in the 80’s Korea campaign, for instance.
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If you have a partner in crime then you can do a variation on that theme with one pilot going rope a dope to get the site’s attention while the other actually attacks the site while it is preoccupied by the other aircraft. Many ways to skin this cat.
Indeed, this is the approach I take, but both pilots loop in, alternating altitude so that one can get detected intentionally while the other closes in a mile or two, then they swap.
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IMHO DTOS sucks for ground units. I usually use the FCR to locate it and bomb that specific radar lock or set a mark point on the FCR, slew the cursors to it and bomb that mark bomb with CBU’s using a 20° loft.
TGP is great for this too.
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AGM-88 for sams then clean up the site with JSOW or cbu’s. At airbases the SAM radar and missiles are spread out and will not be destroyed by one JSOW as other sam sites. Once the SAM radar is down the site is down too. In campaigns the AAA sites are either in line formation or spread out around a key ground target like an depot or nuke. Lining up on the column dropping CCIP 4 cbu87 spread out evenly with a burst altitude over 900 feet will usually destroy that unit also. If you have red sams overlapping your front lines threatening your CAS aircraft bring along Harms and take down the radars otherwise you will lose a lot of a/c. The JSOW is over-modeled yet I like using them. Try it.
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The JSOW is over-modeled yet I like using them. Try it.
This is why I don’t use them. Personally, if I’m not getting shot at, what’s the point of playing the game?
Besides that these tactics all work well for DEAD…but no one has mentioned SEAD missions. If you’re on a SEAD escort and there are three SAM Batteries with radar and you have two AGM-88s…well, you’d better put something else on the jet. That’s all I’m going to say.
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Hey man to each his own no problem. I usually have a wingman and use his munitions first; one Harm at a time which means taking down 4 sams. And for me the point is to win. If you don’t even bother flying ground missions yet destroy the red airforce you will win the campaign. Good luck.@ASharpe:
This is why I don’t use them. Personally, if I’m not getting shot at, what’s the point of playing the game?
Besides that these tactics all work well for DEAD…but no one has mentioned SEAD missions. If you’re on a SEAD escort and there are three SAM Batteries with radar and you have two AGM-88s…well, you’d better put something else on the jet. That’s all I’m going to say.
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Besides that these tactics all work well for DEAD…but no one has mentioned SEAD missions. If you’re on a SEAD escort and there are three SAM Batteries with radar and you have two AGM-88s…well, you’d better put something else on the jet. That’s all I’m going to say.
You don’t have much faith in Mr AI Wingman
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If there are only two radars to take down, I do that myself. If there is more, I use AI first and then take the last two for myself. AI for me is pretty reliable for taking down radars.
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Damn I love Falcon … I’ve been playing forever and never thought to do what Stubbies said… works like magic! I learn a new trick every day! Thanks Stubbies!
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I’ve had my highest AG kill scores doing DTOS attacks. Put a pair of Mk20s right into a few of the HART sites at the DMZ in Korea (in AF - admittedly) and 80+ kills. Never managed to repeat that since! Not sure if the same units are in those sites in BMS.
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I had similar questions to you…… https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?22341-Tactics-for-dealing-with-a-SAM-nest and this was the thread I started which has great info in it. Like others have said many ways to skin this cat……
I choose not to use HARMS and prefer the old fasioned Weasel way…Tobias did a YouTube video of the very tactic which I use… I am still perfecting this way and it relies on very quiet skies… but it does allow for a great and pre-planned (in-flight) attack.
If you are SEAD escort then this method takes too long to clear a target area so Harms maybe your best option then. But I choose to FRAG my own packages and create interdiction flights where I can take my time and choose my targets… I let AI do structural targets… I just clear the SAM nests in my own time. Search and destroy without any package time limitations.