Iff you could have one thing in the next update it would be. (Archive)
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Cruz is right, the Mirage 2000 is more advanced in this sense, their AP too. As far as I can think, no modern jet has this issue anymore, in fact, I would dare say that asymmetrical load trim is a thing of a past.
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Yep, the first time I flew with a asymmetric load was indeed interesting. For me it’s a good “immersion thing”. If RL pilots have to deal with it….
My wish list for BMS is more realistic comms and IFF in Singleplayer. I’m not looking for a “magic button” for target ID, just realistic implementation(ex:not entering Q1 to get a picture) and for all the panels to work.
However, I realize it would be very difficult to implement. -
Cruz is right, the Mirage 2000 is more advanced in this sense, their AP too. As far as I can think, no modern jet has this issue anymore, in fact, I would dare say that asymmetrical load trim is a thing of a past.
What I remember, is the day I flew on M2000 I had to trim the a/c as I asked my pilot to have no AP mode behind. Most of the time, they are flying with the AP in a sort of attitude mode in standby as soon as you depress the palette behind the stick, and auto trim in attitude when you briefly release the pressure …
But those are souvenirs back to 2003!
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Dee-Jay
Ot-Did you meet ever in your base in France with some member of the BMS team? show some aircraft and so on? -
Dee-Jay
Ot-Did you meet ever in your base in France with some member of the BMS team? show some aircraft and so on?Nearly happened with Falcas the last year. I even tried a make a flyby with my a/c over its holiday location but unfortunately, received the coordinates too late (after my landing actually) … so I passed about 10Nm from him …
Successfully re-conducted attempt few weeks ago on a Belgian meeting where few BMS members met together … but sadly, I wasn’t part of the fiesta!
If Falcas is here … maybe he will post few vids of him in its Pitt.
Falcas’s Pit …
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Was a very nice event again.
Also ver good to meet some of the other Dev team members.Lots of kid got the introduction to BMS and had fun.
On sunday I had to have some extra fun and got myself a flight with a Pitts Special.
I’m in the lead Pitts with the smoke
Gr Falcas
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Nearly happened with Falcas the last year. I even tried a make a flyby with my a/c over its holiday location but unfortunately, received the coordinates too late (after my landing actually) … so I passed about 10Nm from him …
Successfully re-conducted attempt few weeks ago on a Belgian meeting where few BMS members met together … but sadly, I wasn’t part of the fiesta!
Maybe next year I’ll go to france again
Gr Falcas
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Was a very nice event again.
Also ver good to meet some of the other Dev team members.Lots of kid got the introduction to BMS and had fun.
On sunday I had to have some extra fun and got myself a flight with a Pitts Special.
I’m in the lead Pitts with the smoke
Gr Falcas
Yeah mate, it was really nice to finally meet you in a very hot day
B
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@Bad:
Yeah mate, it was really nice to finally meet you in a very hot day
B
Yes, sooooo much time on TS and now face to face.
Gr Falcas
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It would be nice to have some civilian aircraft available to use. I can think of many interesting TE that can be built; intercepting and policing civilian traffic, etc. Also… Air Force One… it would be nice to escort it. And in a campaign, having civilian traffic in some areas might bring interesting problems…
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It would be nice to have some civilian aircraft available to use. I can think of many interesting TE that can be built; intercepting and policing civilian traffic, etc. Also… Air Force One… it would be nice to escort it. And in a campaign, having civilian traffic in some areas might bring interesting problems…
You can use IL76, AN24 AN124, which are also civilian a/c used a lot by UN.
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Rather pointless; Ask for AAR, join the Tanker with your formation, then send “Y-3” … AI will go astern position and will refuel.
but it will not be possible to do that in all situations, say for example, if I am too far from them and they are close to the tanker and running out of fuel already.
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but it will not be possible to do that in all situations, say for example, if I am too far from them and they are close to the tanker and running out of fuel already.
Ok I see. Yep … in that case it is rather valid.
However, it should be relatively rare for you to be splitter with your formation much more than 10Nm … so if your formation is close to a tanker, you should’ be very far from them. In that case, you have to closer from the tanker below 10Nm to be able to trigger the AAR sequence. This is a relatively marginal situation. I do not think it will worth the effort (and associated risks of bugs) to code that thing. But it deserve to be asked to our guru. …Note also that with the future version, the AIs that are in a bingo situation will (should) automatically ask by themselves an AAR if a tanker is in the vicinity. However, I am not such about if it is valid when a human is taking place (as leader or not) in the flight.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/entry.php?214-Fuel-management
… to be tested in full scale once the next version will be available.
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However, it should be relatively rare for you to be splitter with your formation much more than 10Nm …
Not really. Not sure if it’s easily done with AI, but within our squadron, we sometimes have #1/2 in-hot (ground target or CAP) while #3/4 go AAR. When refuelled, #3/4 go in-hot, and #1/2 go get some gas.
As you say, probably a lot of risks involved in coding such a thing, but it would definitely be useful if you could split up the system per element, or manually set the priority order, or have BMS detect which aircraft is in the pre-contact position and clear that one in.
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Cruz is right, the Mirage 2000 is more advanced in this sense, their AP too. As far as I can think, no modern jet has this issue anymore, in fact, I would dare say that asymmetrical load trim is a thing of a past.
What I remember, is the day I flew on M2000 I had to trim the a/c as I asked my pilot to have no AP mode behind. Most of the time, they are flying with the AP in a sort of attitude mode in standby as soon as you depress the palette behind the stick, and auto trim in attitude when you briefly release the pressure …
Just asked him 5min ago … and I am right.
There is no auto-trim (at all, even not in pitch in comparison to F-16 which is trimmed at 1G hands off) out of any AP mode.
Only case is when the AP is engaged in a mode called CWS (Control Wheel Steering) on commercial liners. Similar to the ATT mode on F-16, this mode is maintaining the commanded attitude when the palette is not pressed (if roll is <10°, AP put the wings level automatically just like in F-16). When pilot hold the palette depressed, AP is switched to standby and pilot has the full authority of a/c until he release it again. When palette is released briefly, a/c is then auto trimmed for the current attitude/speed.So … when a bomb is released asymmetrically:
If M2000 is out of any AP mode => unbalance exist, a/c is not trimmed automatically and will roll to the heavy wing.
If M2000 is under CWS mode with the palette depressed => AP is in STBY status a/c is not trimmed automatically and will roll to the heavy wing.
If M2000 is under CWS mode with the palette not pressed (hand off) => AP is in attitude mode active, a/c is will be almost instantaneously trimmed automatically for the current attitude and should maintain (or go back to) the commanded attitude.In practice, pilots keeps the palette pressed during bomb drop, and just after bomb release, briefly release the pressure on the palette to trim the a/c back in asymmetric configuration … or … use the trim hat (like we do in our simulated F-16) to trim it manually.
Conclusion. As I said … no build-in roll auto-trim in M2000’s FLCS like in F-16. But in M2000, when AP mode in engaged, auto-trim is permanently provided by the use of the CWS even after the CWS or AP has been switched off (which is not the case in F-16 which is not acting on trims but on regular flight commands output.)
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Ok I see. Yep … in that case it is rather valid.
However, it should be relatively rare for you to be splitter with your formation much more than 10Nm … so if your formation is close to a tanker, you should’ be very far from them. In that case, you have to closer from the tanker below 10Nm to be able to trigger the AAR sequence. This is a relatively marginal situation. I do not think it will worth the effort (and associated risks of bugs) to code that thing. But it deserve to be asked to our guru. …Note also that with the future version, the AIs that are in a bingo situation will (should) automatically ask by themselves an AAR if a tanker is in the vicinity. However, I am not such about if it is valid when a human is taking place (as leader or not) in the flight.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/entry.php?214-Fuel-management
… to be tested in full scale once the next version will be available.
If human leader, they will stay with Leader until ordered to split. So in that case, you just order them to RTB and they will do what is necessary to stay alive.
In any case, if you are away from your wingmen and that they are out of fuel and that they need AAR and you dont, etc etc…this means the mission went very bad, or at least not as planned. In that case, RTB is the right thing to do anyway
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Just asked him 5min ago … and I am right.
There is no auto-trim (at all, even not in pitch in comparison to F-16 which is trimmed at 1G hands off) out of any AP mode.
Only case is when the AP is engaged in a mode called CWS (Control Wheel Steering) on commercial liners. Similar to the ATT mode on F-16, this mode is maintaining the commanded attitude when the palette is not pressed (if roll is <10°, AP put the wings level automatically just like in F-16). When pilot hold the palette depressed, AP is switched to standby and pilot has the full authority of a/c until he release it again. When palette is released briefly, a/c is then auto trimmed for the current attitude/speed.So … when a bomb is released asymmetrically:
If M2000 is out of any AP mode => unbalance exist, a/c is not trimmed automatically and will roll to the heavy wing.
If M2000 is under CWS mode with the palette depressed => AP is in STBY status a/c is not trimmed automatically and will roll to the heavy wing.
If M2000 is under CWS mode with the palette not pressed (hand off) => AP is in attitude mode active, a/c is will be almost instantaneously trimmed automatically for the current attitude and should maintain (or go back to) the commanded attitude.In practice, pilots keeps the palette pressed during bomb drop, and just after bomb release, briefly release the pressure on the palette to trim the a/c back in asymmetric configuration … or … use the trim hat (like we do in our simulated F-16) to trim it manually.
Conclusion. As I said … no build-in roll auto-trim in M2000’s FLCS like in F-16. But in M2000, when AP mode in engaged, auto-trim is permanently provided by the use of the CWS even after the CWS or AP has been switched off (which is not the case in F-16 which is not acting on trims but on regular flight commands output.)
yeah basically, a roll autotrim is just a ATT - AP in Roll ….so you can use it in F16 exactly the same if you dont want to mess with trim.
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What is really interesting indeed is that the M2000 sets your trim right when using the CWS, and then keeps it. That is the main difference between F-16 and M2000.
It makes a lot of sense too for an autotrim : in ATT mode, the AC wants to keep a given attitude and can deduce which trim to put easily, without being polluted by pilot inputs.
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If human leader, they will stay with Leader until ordered to split. So in that case, you just order them to RTB and they will do what is necessary to stay alive.
In any case, if you are away from your wingmen and that they are out of fuel and that they need AAR and you dont, etc etc…this means the mission went very bad, or at least not as planned. In that case, RTB is the right thing to do anyway
it’s interesting to me that you say this as that has not been my experience. On a recent mission I was in flight of 4 attacking an airfield. The flight was past the IP and almost about to roll in on the target. I heard Joker or Bingo calls(can’t remember which,and understand the two or not the same thing). I continued the roll in and attacked. My AI flight was already RTB’ing(without being commanded) and Debrief indicated none had dropped ordinance.
That was not an isolated occurrence. I have been focusing on Weasel missions lately. So, I’m trolling around for SAM sites and have noticed two things. First, the wingman seems sporadic in sticking with me, and in frequent missions does uncommanded RTB’s. Your “if you’re away from your wingman” statement caught my eye. How do you keep the wingman with you? I’m Lead, so why isn’t he/she following me? Is it that I am expanding a specific SEAD strike( after hitting the frag’d target) into a more roving Weasel mission? Obviously, we’re dealing with AI factors here. So, is following the “canned” mission more important then a wingman sticking to his Lead?
Being a good Flight Lead is something I want to learn more about. For me it’s an “immersion thing”, and I am moving toward Multiplayer . So, tips are appreciated. The only answer I’ve found to date is sacrificing ordinance for fuel. AI sticks around better then, I’m assuming it keeps them above whatever fuel value they’re programmed with. -
it’s interesting to me that you say this as that has not been my experience. On a recent mission I was in flight of 4 attacking an airfield. The flight was past the IP and almost about to roll in on the target. I heard Joker or Bingo calls(can’t remember which,and understand the two or not the same thing). I continued the roll in and attacked. My AI flight was already RTB’ing(without being commanded) and Debrief indicated none had dropped ordinance.
That was not an isolated occurrence. I have been focusing on Weasel missions lately. So, I’m trolling around for SAM sites and have noticed two things. First, the wingman seems sporadic in sticking with me, and in frequent missions does uncommanded RTB’s. Your “if you’re away from your wingman” statement caught my eye. How do you keep the wingman with you? I’m Lead, so why isn’t he/she following me? Is it that I am expanding a specific SEAD strike( after hitting the frag’d target) into a more roving Weasel mission? Obviously, we’re dealing with AI factors here. So, is following the “canned” mission more important then a wingman sticking to his Lead?
Being a good Flight Lead is something I want to learn more about. For me it’s an “immersion thing”, and I am moving toward Multiplayer . So, tips are appreciated. The only answer I’ve found to date is sacrificing ordinance for fuel. AI sticks around better then, I’m assuming it keeps them above whatever fuel value they’re programmed with.If its an immersion thing for you, you should probably already be sacrificing ordinance for fuel.
Its a rare charlie block F-16 that does an air to ground mission without wing tanks.