Maverick question
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I seem to have the same problem as above. The maverick only slaves to the FCR when it hasn’t been slew’d. The minute I slew the Mav in weapons mode I cannot get it slave again to the FCR . The only way I get it slaved again is by powering down the Mav then power it up again. I tried TMSUP/DOWN back to FCR and nothing. Any ideas ?
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Cursor Zero?
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Tried Cursor Zero too, it does not work. With SOI WPN or FCR all it seems to do is center the FCR.
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I seem to have the same problem as above. The maverick only slaves to the FCR when it hasn’t been slew’d. The minute I slew the Mav in weapons mode I cannot get it slave again to the FCR . The only way I get it slaved again is by powering down the Mav then power it up again. I tried TMSUP/DOWN back to FCR and nothing. Any ideas ?
Hi,
You need to RTFM the Maverick section of the BMS 3-4. Once a Mav is slewed, it becomes ground stabilized and works on its own, in order to “Reset” it you can change Master mode to DGFT/MRM-Override and cancel.
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That did it, Its working now. Thanks
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So regarding the slaving to the FCR, any idea how to do that?
… to the FCR ~ 5:10
Cheers,
LS -
Hi,
You need to RTFM the Maverick section of the BMS 3-4. Once a Mav is slewed, it becomes ground stabilized and works on its own, in order to “Reset” it you can change Master mode to DGFT/MRM-Override and cancel.
Is there a discussion thread on this? Im fairly certain this is incorrect behavior.
In fact now that I think about it there was another thread where this was discussed…. guess I will have to go hunting for it.
EDIT: So there was a discussion on it… which ended with a not atypical response of ‘BMS will stay the way it is’.
Perhaps you have it right there I-Hawk. I dont happen to have an F-16 on my person to test it out on, though.
I spotted this which details when the Mav gets returned to the slaved condition, and that would seem to support what you are saying about the TMS down causing it to break track but otherwise stay where it is.
2.8.12.1.11.8 In non-TGP operations, the SOI moves to the WPN page (if displayed) upon the target designation. If the SOI is on the FCR page with either FTT or GMTT selected, then the SOI moves to the WPN page upon the target designation after the radar has acquired track. If the SOI changes from WPN to another sensor while the selected Maverick is in slew mode, then the Maverick is commanded into SLAVE (BORE) mode.
2.8.12.1 AGM-65 SMS/WPN Page. If an AGM-65 weapon is selected, peculiar EO options are available. The following EO submodes are accessible:
PRE – Preplanned delivery mode, AGM-65 slaved to SPI, AGM-65 LOS in SLAVE.
VIS – Visual delivery mode, AGM-65 slaved to TD box, AGM-65 LOS in SLAVE.
BORE – Preplanned delivery mode, AGM-65 slaved to its bore LOS, AGM-65 LOS in BORE.So, it would be TMS down to break the track, then either DMS down or up depending on the mode (VIS or PRE). That seems like it would be quite intuitive in operation, actually.
So a TMS up with the SOI on the WPN page would command a track. A TMS down would command a return to slew mode. A DMS up (assuming VIS mode here) would command SOI to the HUD, and the Maverick would be commanded back to the SLAVE mode (which in VIS would point it back to the TD box LOS). Very intuitive.
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I’m fairly certain that it is correct behavior, EVEN if the real manuals may suggest otherwise…
And yes, we had a discussion about it sometime ago
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correct behavior for which F-16 though? F-16I? PXIII? PV? CCIP?
or is the assertion that it is that behavior for all 4 and a half thousand jets?
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correct behavior for which F-16 though? F-16I? PXIII? PV? CCIP?
or is the assertion that it is that behavior for all 4 and a half thousand jets?
Well… I sure hope that you:
1. Realize that it would be EXTREMELY odd for me to just pop such behavior out of my mind.2. Understand that not ANYTHING you read in the real 3-4 is 100% accurate and with some of the subjects you will not even come close to find an answer of how a system behaves in situation x (See e.g SPI behavior in 4.33 and tell me if you can understand the exact details from reading the 3-4 only…)
3. Understand that while we try to simulate some “generic” F-16 tape, it’s really impossible, so the BMS F-16 probably includes bits and pieces from many tapes/Blocks.
4. Understand that the real jet probably also suffers some design shorts and not everything is so great and comfortable, that as far as your “intuitive” comment goes… I can give you a dozen more examples where I think that the real jet is acting dumb and I would have done it otherwise bla bla bla.
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1 and 3, certainly - 3 irks me, but what can -I- do? Nothing.
I would be very curious about number 4, if you are willing to share. Number 2, the SPI stuff actually seems reasonably sensible in its explanation - although perhaps as you say, I am only thinking I understand it, and that the manual is not accurate to any real jet. Number 1, I would never accuse you of making stuff up or pulling it out of thin air. I can appreciate how my curiousity about the source is quite likely to not be satiated, but I am sure you can appreciate how that does not itself make the curiosity any less! -
… to the FCR ~ 5:10
Cheers,http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/lazystone/Smileys/hat_3.gif
LSI watched this video but i dont think boresighting has anything to do with my issue. As long as i can get the FCR and mav seeker to sync up, I cant think of a good reason to even bother boresighting TBH
So is that dgft mode + cancel dgft “fix” an actual thing? Like is that the “proper way” to regain slave function?
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There is some debate over that… that was the topic of the last few posts.
It is definitely ‘a’ way to do it… it would definitely work, whether the manuals description above is correct or whether it only works as I-Hawk says.
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There is no debate here, and repeating the same thing and quoting the same sentences from the 3-4 again and again will not change anything, I suggest to re-read my post above if you really feel like you need to
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There’s certainly a difference of opinion, I can see why. just my 2c, It doesn’t feel intuitive at all tbh. Being new to falcon and having read through the paragraphs on the Mav operation I would have had to read the sections a few times to eventually fathom that I needed to press DGFT mode/cancel especially since its under a mode section that does not even apply to what I was in namely VIS. I was in PRE in fact. At least this works now, then again so does PWR the Mav on and off.
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It doesn’t strictly need to be DGFT/MRM, any master mode change will do. The hands on overrides simply are the most convenient. Whether or not there’s a way to reset the sensor cueing chain after slewing Maverick back to pre-designate PRE/VIS/BORE without MM change is academic in BMS, you can’t.
Settling the bet regarding the real airplane would probably require sitting in the real thing and trying it at this point. If I was the OFP programmer I would have made some way to return to pre-designate via TMS say with the pre-designating sensor SOI. But like I-HAWK says “would be nice” isn’t “the way it is.” The manual also says that there’s no such thing as HUD SOI in BORE mode and yet in BMS there is. It’s a direct contradiction. Who’s right? Did the software change? It’s hard to say.
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Firstly, don’t mix up how LMAV works with how IMAV works…
…secondly, the MAV itself (any MAV) does not make a “designation” in that what the missile sees is not fed back to the aircraft and retained - the MAV “locks on”. Once you break that lock the missile should return to slave to what/wherever your SOI is pointed (in the case of IMAV). Depending on how well you did your boresight (and in RL I strongly think you have to boresight each weapon as they come under pickle) you may or may not be close to your intended target. If you are using a TGP, you need to learn to transition from the TGP as your SOI to the weapon as your SOI and operate that way during the attack; “funnel in”.
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By designate I mean when the LOS of the Maverick is pointed via another sensor such as FCR in PRE or TDC in VIS, slaved and the weapon hasn’t been slewed directly yet. If you break track with Maverick it doesn’t return to the designating sensor (e.g. FCR) directed LOS, not in BMS and likely not R/W either. It would be annoying if you accidentally started tracking an object right next to your intended target and breaking lock would send the Maverick all the way back to the sensor LOS no matter how far that is. Maybe it would resume slaved LOS if you set SOI away from WPN, that would be workable.
That’s really what surprises Blu and myself that there isn’t a return-to-slave mechanic aside from cycling master mode and starting all over. Breaking Maverick slave to autonomous operation is a one way ticket.
I’m confused by what you mean “boresight each weapon as they come under the pickle.” Boresighting is done well before the attack run. When the weapon is tracking the same item as something else (FCR, TGP) that’s when the calibration is saved. When it comes time to use the thing that’s all done. I also don’t understand transitioning from TGP SOI to WPN SOI. During a TGP-EO attack the WPN page is never SOI.
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Again, don’t mix your terminology - what you mean is “slaved”, not designation/designated. You can screw up here in a few ways - mistaking where your SOI is, having a poor boresight, etc. And again, I strongly think that you have to boresige each missile in turn - so if you boresight #1, fire, and then step to the next and wake it up you may find you need to boresight that one before it slaves properly/effectively; this is what I mean by “boresight as each comes under pickle”.
Also know and be certain of which lock you are breaking - if your SOI is the TGP and you break, you have undesignated. If you break missile lock (missile as SOI) and the missile is not slaved, I’m pretty sure you can command it back to slave via either CAGE/UNCAGE or CURSOR ENABLE - you’ll have to cross-check me in the manual on that one. But you need to insure the TGP is SOI first.
As for “transitioning” - the TGP is effective at picking out targets at much longer ranges than the MAV. So you can use the TGP to get you “funneled” into the target area, but in the endgame and prior to launch you must switch your SOI to MAV and lock the weapon - just because the MAV is slaved onto target doesn’t mean it’s locked on target…in point of fact, it shouldn’t be - it should just be staring in the general vicinity. You have to “transition” your SOI to MAV, lock the target, verify launch parameters, then fire a valid shot…one weapon. Then egress and set up for re-attack if/as required.
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Neither of those hotas commands will do that. Uncage will command it to uncage the gyro in the seeker, which should have happened already, and cursor enable will cycle through the submodes VIS, PRE and BORE.