Flares not working in BMS?
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True
AIM-9M missed in iraq , that document is in YouTube btw…
And there is real pilot from F-15 telling how his AIM-9s missed MIG-25 from REAR
+afterburner…
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Keep also in mind when talking about such “rather unique” example, that somtimes, missile/seeker … can simply fail. I.E: GBU12/24 missing their targets for unknown reasons are not very rare IRL …
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Keep also in mind when talking about such “rather unique” example, that somtimes, missile/seeker … can simply fail. I.E: GBU12/24 missing their targets for unknown reasons are not very rare IRL …
I’m aware this.
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Also, the timing of flare release is important. If you drop 100 flares when the missile is either too far or too close it wont get affected at all.
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Yes, and in Falcon you have a certain range (between two specific values) when the missile will be more impacted.
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Yes, and in Falcon you have a certain range (between two specific values) when the missile will be more impacted.
I know, RP5’s legacy is still living. SARH and ARH also had range modifiers but because in BMS ARH immune to flare ARH range modifier does not count anymore.
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“Normal”. BMS do not simulate the adaptive chaff cutting like it does exist on "some a/c). Classic chaffs do simply not work on modern ARH and are only made to “jam” the launch platforms.
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I know, RP5’s legacy is still living. SARH and ARH also had range modifiers but because in BMS ARH immune to flare ARH range modifier does not count anymore.
ARH is not immune to chaff. However, it will scan and reacquire quickly.
Molni, test the following, in aim120.dat, edit the line BeamScanRatioForSearch 2 to BeamScanRatioForSearch 0.
Then get fired at by a 120B (standard ARH in dogfight module, FYI), and once the missile is active, fire the following sequence of chaff : 1 burst, 30+ chaff in the burst, 0.1s between chaffs. The missile will stop tracking and never reacquire.
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ARH is not immune to chaff. However, it will scan and reacquire quickly.
Molni, test the following, in aim120.dat, edit the line BeamScanRatioForSearch 2 to BeamScanRatioForSearch 0.
Then get fired at by a 120B (standard ARH in dogfight module, FYI), and once the missile is active, fire the following sequence of chaff : 1 burst, 30+ chaff in the burst, 0.1s between chaffs. The missile will stop tracking and never reacquire.
I’m not familiar with many dat file data lines. I changed only the chaff chance value in DB and did not had any effect. Do the SARH missiles have the same lines?
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“Normal”. BMS do not simulate the adaptive chaff cutting like it does exist on M2000. Classic chaffs do simply not work on modern ARH and are only made to “jam” the launch platforms.
How can it be, that a small ARH onboard radar is immune to chaff while you saying aircraft more powerful and complex radar is not…? Or I misunderstand something?
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How can it be, that a small ARH onboard radar is immune to chaff while you saying aircraft more powerful and complex radar is not…? Or I misunderstand something?
Tell me how (simply) a chaff is working, and maybe I can give you the point you are missing.
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Because the missile scan closer and have a inertial track. Then you can break the lock for a small period of time, but as soon the sequence is finished, the missile is so close and know where you are that it will find you immediately.
Chaff is not use for the missile but for the airborn radar. -
I’m not familiar with many dat file data lines. I changed only the chaff chance value in DB and did not had any effect. Do the SARH missiles have the same lines?
Only useful for ARH.
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How can it be, that a small ARH onboard radar is immune to chaff while you saying aircraft more powerful and complex radar is not…? Or I misunderstand something?
Tell me how (simply) a chaff is working, and maybe I can give you the point you are missing.
… look … what is easily noticeable in that picture:
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Because the missile scan closer and have a inertial track. Then you can break the lock for a small period of time, but as soon the sequence is finished, the missile is so close and know where you are that it will find you immediately.
Chaff is not use for the missile but for the airborn radar.Airborne radar can be as close as AAM and also know where should be the AC. I do not get your reasoning.
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… look … what is easily noticeable in that picture:
https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-516810209df2dcbb7b8e31777bf66a9e?convert_to_webp=true
Pls. explain, I’m not good in riddles.
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Pls. explain, I’m not good in riddles.
Note the size (length) of the fibres in the picture …
This is the main point.
Please read the Chap13 of this : https://www.dropbox.com/s/26s87625cavex2q/Electronic%20Warfare%20Fundamentals.pdf?dl=0
Problem is about the fact that chaffs cartridge are not 100% efficient on all radar freq & band range. It is optimized for a given rage depending on a/c RCS and the radar to be jammed.
A fighter’s radar is not working in the same freq/PRF/PW than missile’s ARH (made to find and track a contact at a closer range (think distance ambiguities) and not with the same relative speed (HPRF - angular/speed ambiguities) … in other words … they are not working for the same purpose nor in the same distance/relative speed conditions and nor build to do the same things … so … are basically different.It would certainly be possible to have some chaff made to jam the missile’s radar itself, but it will reduce the numbers of chaffs available for AI radar and SAMs and would require a higher density (in other words, there is no more room left in dispensers to place more “general purpose” classic chaffs).
Usually, it is better to try to deny the launch by jamming the launch platform rather than defeating a missile (with a very low chance of success anyway because “launch” or ARH must be detected by RWR, and this is another totally different story!)So … the point is that a chaffs are not optimized for missile avoidance and associated to missile’s speed rejection or other ECCM features, it make the chaffs quite ineffective with most of ARH.
Hope that now you get the point and that you will stop with this “ARH are immune to chaff” loop.
Again, read carefully the CHAP13 of the Electronic-Warfare-Fundamentals.pdf
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Missle radar working on different wavelength than radar of launch platform, thus would require different cuts of chaff to be jammed? Just guessing…
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Maybe you just use your flares wrong… if you deploy them, they should get between you and the missile… But, if you have looked at them, the drop below your jet, so if jou fly you drop them to complete wrong Level… IF you also make turns, the seeker looks at your enginge and in the way you might fly… if you drop a flare, it goes just down in a way that is asbolout unimportant for that seeker… So no effect on the seeker.
And chaffs… for me I just juse them to give me a few seconds more before the enemy can shoot… if the missile is on its way… I normaly just run
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Thats not right. In real life employments the fighter is in a turn circle and Starts flaring when the heater was launched. The pilot have to look back and is watchIng what the heater is doing. If the decoys are working the missile will going to leave the Turning circle. Otherwise the pilot have to do a defensive break to defend the missile. In BMS only the defensive break is an Option because the flares are never working against older and very old heaters.
Cheers
Tom