Refuel with the Cougar
-
Hi All,
I have some problem in refuelling procedure with my Cougar.
It’s about the Throttle i think. Very difficult to stay at specific speed and keep it behind the Tanker.
Any suggestion?
Thanks, Ciao
Gundam
-
install a hall sensor for more fine-tuned input, and/or connect it to a TUSBA instead of on the hotas stick base.
-
Hi Focaldesign,
Thanks for your quick response. Hall sensors yes i heard about… Tusba never. I will study!!
thanks a lot
Ciao!
-
Try a bit of a see-sawing motion on the throttle permanently, like going up to military for 3 seconds, then dropping back to half for two seconds, rinse & repeat. I find it much easier to stabilize at a certain speed that way because you “keep the revs up” which results in a much faster response.
Uwe
-
Hi Hoover,
Many thanks for your suggestion. I will try.
Gundam
-
Practice. You just need to be able to think in terms of second derivatives. Fix position error by changing rate of change of acceleration, which changes acceleration which changes speed which changes position.
Or in other words, if you are behind the tanker, you cant fix that just by throttling up - you will have to throttle up to some point higher than the setting for the speed you want, then throttle back to some point lower than the speed you want, then back to the setting for the speed you want. You cant do this mechanically - you need to observe the changes happening, decide how to solve the tanker problem, and act on those changes you decided on. Rinse and repeat - back to observe, decide, act.
You might find this similar to constantly rocking the throttle, but as your solution gets better, you ‘zero in’ on the throttle setting in the correct position, making smaller and smaller changes until you are sitting in the sweet spot for position and speed, with no acceleration and a fixed throttle setting. Or until you have gotten your briefed onload, whichever happens first.
-
I really struggled with refuelling, until I popped the air brakes out and that instantly made it easier to stay in position. Try it.
-
Hi mastersetter,
Brakes out…… OK. I will try!!! It would be interesting to know if even in real life pilot use this way.
Thanks! Ciao
-
Hi mastersetter,
Brakes out…… OK. I will try!!! It would be interesting to know if even in real life pilot use this way.
Thanks! Ciao
Never saw it on any aar video, and I saw a lot. Even couldnt think of any sense in doing this, you are going to the tanker to take up fuel for your mission and not for compensating the higher fuel flow due the higher drag you get with airbrakes out
-
Hi mastersetter,
Brakes out…… OK. I will try!!! It would be interesting to know if even in real life pilot use this way.
Thanks! Ciao
Real military pilots practice the skills involved in refueling on just about every single flight they make, and dont need to do it this way.
Simply put, if your formation skills are at the level they expect, boom refueling is not difficult. Its the same as flying formation - just a different position.
Most BMS pilots need some assistance because most dont bother to practice formation work and many never bother to learn it in the first place.
-
Recently watched a cockpit video of f16 keeping close formation and the constant throttle rocking was very evident.
-
Since the Warthog was installed I was a bit “worried” I might not be able to refuel as smooth as I used to with my FSSB modded Cougar, but I found it easier. It’s all down to the far better resolution of the throttle. A TUSBA TQS will sort you out no bother. I doubt a Hall Sensor on its own would help much (unless your throttle is spikey as heck) cos ultimately the standard electronics will be at the same res as before the mod.
-
Recently watched a cockpit video of f16 keeping close formation and the constant throttle rocking was very evident.
So is the longer throttle arm. Keep in mind that fore aft motion of the throttle is magnified on the real jet due to that.
-
This post is deleted! -
Hi all,
Real a lot of good indication from y. I have to train a lot but i am sure i will go to do it!
Thanks a lot.
Gundam
-
For the hall sensor first observe if your throttle is spiking. If it’s an old one most probably it will. Had this problem and went for the hall sensor. Smooth as it should.
Sent from TapaTalk
-
Just practice my friend. Only practice.
-
to be fair, unless your stick barely works (and i mean really barely) it’s all in giving it a few hours’ practice.
i have several flying buddies that use 20$ logitech sticks and still easily manage AAR. the more precise stick you have, the easier theoretically it gets but no amount of stick precision compensates for lack of knowledge, it’s just the way it is.
-
I have seen improved throttle resolution and control after getting both the TUSBA and then again the Miles Hall Sensor TQS mod. The original TQS has only 8-bit control and ever degrading analog potentiometer. These two mods transform the TQS into a modern higher resolution and stable usb controller, the perfect mate to a force modded Cougar or WHog stick like either the FSSB or FCC.
Key to refueling is getting a proper sight picture of what the “cleared to contact” and “connected” look like. Then its about throttle control and the director lights. Some tricks I use are:
- small sea-sawing of the throttle, which should be decreasing input until stabilized.
- making up/down stick corrections at no more than one or two horizontal FPM widths. This prevents the porpoising rollercoaster ride effect. Be precise and patient allowing for momentum and response to work out.
- trim up a few clicks when tanker is in a turn
- before overriding the radar, note the exact speed of the tanker when its in refueling mode
- fly fast flow close formation position when youre next up to get into the groove