On Theaters
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Over the course of the next few months I will be digging thru my files and sorting out the stuff that might be useful for BMS. Nearly all the stuff that I have from FF that is Pre-RV/DXM is pretty usable. I had last rights on several old theaters and have all the source files for them, that previous devs gave up on. Unfortunately, it is distributed over three different hard-drives on three different computers, none of which I currently have setup right now. Some of my stuff goes all the way back to when was Heading up MacFalcon and doing the installers and terrain stuff there.
One of the things I have learned over the past 15 years is that folks tend to think way too big and fail to answer some basic questions about a theater: 1) Is this theater going to be significantly different than any other theater? 2) Do I have the critical mass of developers and code support to solve issues I may encounter over the course of the project? 3) How long will my project realistically take given all the features I wish to have? 4) Am I prepared to accept complete DB and terrain rebuilds if/when the executable incorporates significant improvements invalidating my previous work (this loops back to question 3)? If the answer to any of these four questions is no - STOP, do not pass Go and do not collect $200. You are wasting your time and everyone else’s. For things that require code changes - let the smart guys on the BMS Code Team take lead and itemize what is possible and what isn’t and be happy with that … if the code won’t support and will never get changed - move on to something else. There is a ton of stuff we can do without pissing and moaning about code that is nothing more than dreams.
Having dreams is good but in Falcon development this usually leads to a stalled project that either never gets released or spends years in never-ending Alpha/Beta testing with lot of website buzz and attaboys for cool screenshots but in the end fizzles and often results in a total loss of all the work that was done. This is perhaps the biggest frustration for me when really neat project fail catastrophically. Many times their material is also lost. I am unsure of all the reasons but when folks begin to close hold their work and concern themselves with EULAs and protection of intellectual property, those are valid concerns at the time but often just result in a loss of material. I myself fell into this trap as well. Which is one of the reasons I decided when Steve Wooters and I shut down FreeFalcon, to make everything available to the community. Surprisingly, I am not sure anyone ever asked for anything. Maybe the material was crap? Maybe folks didn’t understand? Dunno. I had stuff readily available a few years ago. Then I took down those computers and boxed them up and put them in the basement. Haven’t touched any of it in years. Don’t know if the computers even work now. I have all the installers from MacFalcon, and a lot of installs from various Falcon groups and of course all the stuff from when I was heading up FreeFalcon - that is a lot of stuff guys. Gigabytes of raw and finished material. I can’t recall how many skins I did personally, but I have a ton of PSDs, model work, Falcon tools for little stuff that may or may not be obsolete now but every now and again someone might find something useful. I also had sourcecode for all the RV tools for DXM stuff – Alex Vallone was fantastic in his simplicity of tools and I found the stuff amazing useful once mastered. Some of these tools might be useful from a analytical perspective for building BMS based tools if not already done so. Pardon me for some lack of familiarity with what is the current state of the art in BMS tools - I am still catching up.
Honestly, I am not sure how much time Falcon has left - it has been around a long time but without continued code changes, its future is limited like any software program. I guess that is why I would like appeal to devs here at BMS to start kicking their work and source files up . . . stop holding things back. Every time a new model get 95% done and then gets dropped and there are source files - someone else has to start from scratch. Skinning PSDs are another example - why reinvent? Just modify what has been done.
Last observation and I will shut up for a bit – if you want to start a theater - make it simple first, simple models, simple terrain tiles, and build your TEs and Campaigns - get the thing running first - skipping the eye-candy in favor of seeing if you can actually close the deal on a theater by getting the basics done first. The theater graveyard is filled with theater work that had neat models, skins, UI, music but failed to work in game; Campaigns wouldn’t work, TE’s crashed, Dogfight inop, and IA inop – what is the point of all that effort if you cant get things to work? Once you have a working theater - then you set the artists and modelers loose and let them go to town - plan sequential updates for the eye-candy. The difference is now you have a working theater that is only going to get better with age instead of making excuses for needing another “2-3 weeks.”
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Thank you very much for your suggestions and recommendations…;)
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Hey Ranger, good to see you’re getting active at Falcon again. ‘Junior member’ hehehe.
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I can provde help for DB in case you plan something.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/nxrj4nsn428i991/Falcon-BMS4-database-WIP-13-07-2016.pdf -
Very nice to see you active again!!! Of course nice recomendations and useful tips! Cheers!!!
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well thanx. For the tools you could start posting like a list which are they and what are they supposed to do.
I believe those should be tested in case there are any issues with BMS.For not asking the models and work from FF, well as a third party observer and if it was openly offered, sorry but it didn’t got my attention.
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@ Arty - a comprehensive list is pretty long. See a partial list below with a pic. Some are folders with several tools inside. To sit down and summarize what they are and what they are supposed to do, and when/where they apply would take some time. Most folks who are actively involved in development of one sort or another have probably already grabbed most of this stuff, like did. A lot of obsolete stuff and some old stuff that is stull quite usable for some little known/used things.
I think it is a good idea to provide some sort of comprehensive list and such - this thread is probably not that place - maybe better in a developer section for theaters with a sticky.
I think I have used or at least looked at most of the stuff above. Some examples like LODEditor span more than a decade with versions in the 7.xx and I lost count how many versions and which ones do what - my notes were not that detailed. One of notepads on notes from Fred for stuff is currently missing - I had to send a computer in for repair so I can’t access my notes there - documenting the how-to from the tool creator was important to me because some of these tools require very specific pointing and file/folder arrangements to work or special exe codes to activate some feature. This is the kind of stuff that has complicated development.
well thanx. For the tools you could start posting like a list which are they and what are they supposed to do.
I believe those should be tested in case there are any issues with BMS.For not asking the models and work from FF, well as a third party observer and if it was openly offered, sorry but it didn’t got my attention.
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I think for a person really serious about developing - one of those known to have success on specific area of interest in developing and form a mentoring relationship until the new person can get going on their own and thus repeat the cycle of passing on working knowledge. Putting all this stuff out for anyone and everyone will likely confuse some and the time taken to adequately document how to use some tool is not only time sensitive but such a perishable skill that you might need some kind of full-time curator/tech to help newcomers. I don’t have time for that. I like doing stuff to much to spend on a full-time teaching.
The problem I have found is that Falcon is pretty difficult to produce results, takes tons of time, lots of frustration, and lots of persistence. A lot of folks come to realize the commitment and balk. So, perhaps a better filter for those is that those who are really ready for a sizable commitment of their lives to Falcon - they will naturally find the right people, acquire the tools, one way or another because they are at their core problem solvers and will always seem to find a way to pull the virtual rabbit out of their hat. That is the person I want to help - not the 2-3 month wonder/expert who is gone by years end, wasting everyone’s time. Look around guys - when you see someone with 6, 8, 10 or more years you know they are the addicted ones - with the Falcon sickness - these are the folks that may not have a lot of posts but a ton of PMs, e-mails, but a lot of stuff contributed in one install or another over a long span of time. I recall seeing some folks with 10,000 plus posts, takes quite a bit of time and commitment on the forums to get that kind of number, that is someone spending a lot of time on the boards but not necessarily on the tools. Socializing is fine but it doesn’t get the hard work done. Deving can be pretty solitary - then for a few moments of joy seeing it work in game and then on to the next thing.
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Well one good, in my personal experience and judgement which is poor, Lodeditor needs an overhaul. U mentioned version 7, don’t know if it’s compatible with BMS or what new is in there but our common version is 6.23.
I agree that the tools being around to everyone might get ppl confused, though with an indexed list explaining in a sentence what it does will not confuse. Also a short theater guide like u need those to do those with reference to alternatives.The source code of those tools should be passed to bms if applicable and the team handle them.
Long time since tools got updated. Thankfully Falcon Editor solved many issues but as known falcon theater creation and modding is a killer process and all complain of many unfinished theaters and thousands of hours and resources lost down the drain. Well one big factor for this is those tools.
Please don’t take it as complain, I’m married with falcon so I go along, but at some points if we-you can make it easier please do so.
What I see in this list is disruption. Great tools probably but just get to know what is ouch in the sense there might be diamonds there that might get faded away without any use.Sent from TapaTalk
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LODEditor is a hack from a hack - Julian Onions and Rick Prior are two of the Godfathers of our tools. Rick created some great tools, MacBrowse, MacTac and attached was LODEditor - the source code for the LODEditor and other stuff, I believe was passed on to Fred Balding who then ported MacLODEditor to PC. In conversations with Fred, he indicated he had other source code. Not taking anything away from Dr. Fred but a lot of useful source code is probably still sitting on Fred’s hard-drive somewhere.
Maybe someone can track down Rick Prior or Julian Onions . . . they may be willing to unload that code to the right person, especially since I don’t think Fred is active much or taking requests.