The FAC(A) mission and the IDM
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at least in falcon the obvious and easiest way to guide in CAS falcons is to use the IDMs FCR cursor/markpoint transmit function to cue in CAS birds to desirable targets, however one problem presents itself: at least as far as i know, the IDM only transmits to your own flight; that is, if you are a package of 8 falcons in three flights, say, a oneship FAC flight, and then 3 and four ship CAS flight, the FAC cannot actually transmit to anyone besides himself. even if you just roll the FAC into the three-ship CAS, you still cannot effectively share data with your sister flight. so the question is:
is there a way to do this?
if not, is there a reason it is not possible (RL limitations or game limitations)
if not, what is then the best way for the FAC to transmit locations of enemy movers. is there a bullseye offset or a way to transmit a FAC-relative coordinate of some kind?
any answers appreciated
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@Cik:
at least in falcon the obvious and easiest way to guide in CAS falcons is to use the IDMs FCR cursor/markpoint transmit function to cue in CAS birds to desirable targets, however one problem presents itself: at least as far as i know, the IDM only transmits to your own flight; that is, if you are a package of 8 falcons in three flights, say, a oneship FAC flight, and then 3 and four ship CAS flight, the FAC cannot actually transmit to anyone besides himself. even if you just roll the FAC into the three-ship CAS, you still cannot effectively share data with your sister flight. so the question is:
is there a way to do this?
if not, is there a reason it is not possible (RL limitations or game limitations)
if not, what is then the best way for the FAC to transmit locations of enemy movers. is there a bullseye offset or a way to transmit a FAC-relative coordinate of some kind?
any answers appreciated
You can transmit to any flight in your package.
Go to your datalink/IDM page via the ICP. On the first page look for the XMT … should be 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 depending on the position of your flight in the package. Change that to the flight you want to send data to, then transmit mark points as usual.
For example, you’re the FAC on IDM 40 (so, if you’re lead, you’ll be ship 41). You want to send data to AC 32. Change the IDM XMT to 30 and send as normal. All flights on IDM 30 will receive that markpoint (i.e. AC 31, 32, 33 & 34 … just like you’re part of their flight). So you do need to be clear about which AC you want on which markpoint.
Change your IDM XMT to another flight, or back 40 for your own flight.
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if i am XMT 30 and OWN 41 and i am hosting a CONT round will it screw everything up if i change it?
i guess the question is, is XMT purely to determine who receives data, or does it key into how the core CONT round propagates?
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It’s been a while since I’ve flown, so I’m not sure you can do it in BMS, but IIRC, the IDM DED Page allows you to change to who you transmit. E.g. IDM 10 would be the default “group address” for those with IDM 11-14. If you change that to 20, you will send to 21-24, 30 sends to 31-34 etc.
Another option outside IDM is using bearing and range from known locations, such as Bullseye, fixed anchor point/IP, visual landmark etc.
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@Cik:
if i am XMT 30 and OWN 41 and i am hosting a CONT round will it screw everything up if i change it?
i guess the question is, is XMT purely to determine who receives data, or does it key into how the core CONT round propagates?
Only affects sent data as far as I know. Worth watching though.
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neat. thanks guys. never considered it that way. always nice to learn something new. cheers.
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at least in falcon the obvious and easiest way to guide in CAS falcons is to use the IDMs FCR cursor/markpoint transmit function to cue in CAS birds to desirable targets,
Actually there are better way to do this.
First one is buddy lasing. the fac can simply lase for the CAS.
Second way is to use IR pointer or LST (laser spot tracker)
FAc shows the target to CAS, then CAS attack on its own.if not, what is then the best way for the FAC to transmit locations of enemy movers. is there a bullseye offset or a way to transmit a FAC-relative coordinate of some kind?
9 lines
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@Red:
Actually there are better way to do this.
First one is buddy lasing. the fac can simply lase for the CAS.
Second way is to use IR pointer or LST (laser spot tracker)
FAc shows the target to CAS, then CAS attack on its own.9 lines
This is how it’s usually done. I’ve never just had a FAC(A) datalink something and that was the end of it. There’s some type of coordination. Usually in the form of a 9 line. Then in your 2-ship the FL will give you a FROTIES brief.
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@Red:
Actually there are better way to do this.
First one is buddy lasing. the fac can simply lase for the CAS.presumably you’d have to actually talk them onto the target first, though, with either IDM, bullseye offset or terrain
Second way is to use IR pointer or LST (laser spot tracker)
FAc shows the target to CAS, then CAS attack on its own.
yeah… i know this thing exists but i’ve never used it. how liberal is it’s parameters? by which i mean, do you have to be looking at a point within a few miles of the laser spot, or can i just snap the TGP open and let it go and it will find it as long as it’s 30/90/180/360 degrees around you?
if you have to already be looking at the target the use is marginal i’d think, except maybe to point out specific targets in a column, however if it’s fire & forget in a way i could see uses for it.
and i don’t know about nine line(s) personally i have a hard enough time going through one when i’m doing nothing but sitting on the ground staring through a rangefinder (i’ve done FAC in arma a few times, anyway) let alone flying a plane and manipulating the sensors of said plane.
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u can also use the talk-on. u choose a geographical point, ie building, runway etc, and u guide the attacker based on that geographical point, ie use as reference the building on the south of the RWY. From there move 100mts to the west. that is your target! For distance u can use buildings or hangars as reference or even the meter stick in the TGP page. There is a CAS manual in the BMS DOCS that explain the talk-on procedure
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unfortunately the target is 50nm north of the DMZ moving east-west along a road through the outback of north korea.
i’m not sure how effective talk in will be “the target is north of the road.”
“it’s by the green hill”
you see the problem :mad:
that and also these are chinese battalions brimming with ZSU-23-4 and chinese MANPADS. SA-19 probably in area too, though no confirmations.
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presumably you’d have to actually talk them onto the target first, though, with either IDM, bullseye offset or terrain
that’s why you have the 9 lines
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okay geez crimson hound i get it, do you have a 9line sheet you prefer?
there’s one in the docs, isn’t there
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unfortunately the target is 50nm north of the DMZ moving east-west along a road through the outback of north korea.
i’m not sure how effective talk in will be “the target is north of the road.”
“it’s by the green hill”
you see the problem
that and also these are chinese battalions brimming with ZSU-23-4 and chinese MANPADS. SA-19 probably in area too, though no confirmations.
that’s no FAC or CAS work, at least in BMS. you’re still in the mission planning phase at that distance.
To be able to do FAC work you must be within visual/sensor range of the target. you can’t do FAC at 50NM distance.there’s one in the docs, isn’t there
I just posted part of our squad CAS book, see above post i edited
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50nm north of the DMZ (i edited it, to be fair)
it’s not technically CAS, it’s more air interdiction. we’re attritting them before they get to the front and stall the advance of the ROK/US tanks currently shoving resolutely on towards T’osan
also, that’s a nice sheet. thanks amigo.
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Actual CAS could be as simple as a DL or IDM sent 9Line… not really done (there always some shot of check-in challenge and response going on, but it could be perfectly speechless.
Also there are 3 type of CAS. CAS type 3 in effect means not the FAC/JTAC nor the air asset will have the target in sight!!! (of course there will be a lot of in & out calls or msjs to get authorization for this, but it is possible for a FAC to clear hot a fighter over the clouds to drop bombs on a target wich is far away and not in sight)
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You’re making this harder than it needs to be. You have a ton of options.
To get in the general area you can use a 9 line that’s pass from someone that takes a HMCS or TGP mark and passes the coords. It could be sent as an IDM MKPT (we use L16: comm would be “Viper 2, hook 1s point, index 69”)
Once you’re in the general the fastest way is to use TGP LSS/LST. Sometimes we practice actual talk ons or you can’t do a LST e.g. “2 call contact on the bend in the East West running road”. “2s contact and it looks like there’s an open field just north”. “Call contact on the north eastern point of that field” “2s contact and it looks like there’s 4 vehicles oriented north south.” “2 your target is the eastern most vehicle”. “2s capture the eastern most vehicle with the 2 men standing out front”. “This will be wedge, shooter-shooter, gun, 1 has the western most vehicle, 2 take the eastern most vehicle, ingress heading 270 +/- 30, egress back to the wheel”. “2”.
That’s about how smoothly and quickly it should go.
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after a little practice in a two ship, i’m not sure about LST; acquisition seems extremely limited, even from range; you already have to be essentially looking right at the target for DETECT. am i just doing this wrong? i’ve waited over a minute before with no detect so…
if that’s the case, why not just use the datalink?
sure for pointing out specific targets in a column i could see it’s use, but for pointing out specific columns i’m not sure it will actually work.
anyway i’m sure it will go fine anyway, i can use the datalink and radar to point things out. it just seems like a fairly limited tool.
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Are you sure you set the laser code correctly?
LSt in my own experience is pretty good and pretty useful -
both 1688 laser code, at about 15nm slant we would get DETECT and TRACK essentially instantly within one screen (hard exactly to measure how far the TGP was away from the target… our chief objective was to find out how permissive the LST “window” is)
however if we moved the TGP off the target by even a nautical or two it would never detect (or, well, we gave it a minute or so)
we tried different aspects, even at straight nose-on (with TGP offset a little) no dice. i’m not sure if the TGP actually does a scan or if it just checks within the screen, but either way it didn’t seem that useful. for handing off to specific points in a column or a specific building in a city it’d work fine, but if you’re sweeping the countryside for moving columns i’d use a steerpoint instead.