Idea for theater integration: DB compare tool
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@A.S:
That is why i had the Allied Forces db open and the same time the BMS db on the other side - as comparision tool if you will.
Compared EVERY crucial values, RUN-cross-checked them ingame (datarate, stores, hardpoints, features, repairtimes, radars, flags, weapons, Roster-Slots …you name it …list goes on) …fixed EVERY unit + weapon we will use in next RF server (min/max speeds and alt, rolescore, vis sig (was completly missing), RCS, fuel rate, GW, MTOW …all the FLAGS… …list goes on) …again…cross check all ingame…adjust for most realism…bla bla bla… it is work…indeed.Same with the campaign (korea) …rebuilt every link properly in respect to mountains, streets…coast, riverbeds…priority, suppy and fuel values distributed logically, objects placed right, unit names and slots filled right…rosterfixes…etc etc)
The db needs to be seriously redone from beginning and one solid one needs to be released as basis for the future.
Too much stuff is tweaked to death, moddified to mutations or completly missing
Infact its pain in the arse, but with dedicated testing (fly it) and understanding…you can do real good “magic” for your campaign. in terms of more realistic warfare and environment.I (with Demers help too) could only do it for what is required on our next server, but there are other great theaters now (as in example Isreal) which also would benefit from proper database work and fixes (one i.e Mystic just did fixing the oversaturated airspace >> roster-slots) ….etc etc.
You can’t compare AF and BMS’s DB … some values are no more used in BMS, and some other added … code behaviour is not the same etc …
Ie: if you copy and paste the fuel rate, Altitude etc … from AF or OF to BMS … you will have serious troubles.
In other words … if you have no clues about code … do not touch DB.
Any in an case, you will have t redo all the stuff at each major code change od BD change … will be the case for future BMS version (not patch).
BD work “is not for public” ppl.
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:mrgreen: thanks for head-up, but you dont have to be concerned. Once released it will sound for itself
But you are also right, you cant just punch in numbers out of here and there or other dbs or wikipedia ……is that why the current db is like that and messed up and not working in many parts?
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Echo7 whenever you have the time please hop on Team Archer TS so that we can discuss a few things about the great ITO campaign you have made, a few small fixes are required and I have identified them.
I spoke to one of your friend’s the other day and he must have conveyed my message to you.Peace
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LOL even Microsoft Access can do that Or maybe even Excel…
I have asked and in another thread… something familiar to that…
Can some one point to the files and some basic structure of them? By having a very quick eye on the Editor it’s a bit complex structure of text files… If they are indexed and given identifiers and some descriptions and properties like theater or airforce…
I believe the hard thing is to do it in the first place than it’s easy to manipulate and alter. only at the export u give them the form that falcon recognizes. But on the other hand falcon must use some way of indexing else it wouldn’t work, where can I see it? (this is my second trigger than gfx and particle… oh goody goody). Also SQL could help on this arena… and sql can kill them all.So a tool can be created to see change add delete. Sorry I forgot compare and point out too.
Edit: Also now it’s the best time to start this tool since BMS is still Fresh.
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The thing with altering values is……you dont know always what those will change in the MATRIX* …sometimes you do know, sometimes you think you know, but its not so.
Therefore punching in just ideological, theoretical or realistic “appearing” values will not deliver desired results as a promise every time…
First it must be understood how the engine TRANSLATES the data, then we can use common reasoning of warfare and AI-behaviour and try to adjust in order to get a more realistic environment back.
But in order to find this out (how the engine translates), it is inevitable to run multiple tests …and to do deeper observations…hell, i even join the AI as wingmen and watch what they do and how …and if that makes sense or if it is just stupid suicadal, unsupportive “drone-flying”
Even recording of the AI and watching their behavior in Tacview is part of this job (including ground units and SAMs). -
@A.S:
:mrgreen: thanks for head-up, but you dont have to be concerned. Once released it will sound for itself
What I mean … is that we (BMS team) can (maybe) help few major theater team … one or two, but we don’t have resources to help every single guy that want to tweak and update their theater DB. (PVP purposes in example.)
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appreciated
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@A.S:
Therefore punching in just ideological, theoretical or realistic “appearing” values will not deliver desired results as a promise every time…
“Unfortunately”, you are 100% right… (would be too easy )
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So to raise the dead… and put it in a context.
Let’s start with which are the files that need to be compared. This probably means all the database files. So they are? -
Even if we can get in the future a tool that’s able to compare distinct DBs, do you foresee the possibility to compare Parent data values also? Meaning hitbox parameters, LOD distances, Slot data…
Because in my point of view, that’s one of the most massive and boring aspects of DB update and from what I know, right now every single value must be input by hand… -
Isn’t there like a 3DDB builder tool coming along with the BMS updates? I think I remember seeing such a file when applying some of the 4.32 updates. It might have been just a temporary file, deleted after usage to update the 3D db as I can’t find it back now.
Even if I manage to find this file back I’m not sure if posting this here in public will go along with the BMS License Agreement. Maybe one of the devs could advise at what’s possible here?
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only viable scenario to a tool such as this is DB syncing.
you have U1 DB then U2 comes out. a tool such as this will show you the Delta. Which is useful for theater creators, to quicken up updates as you can adjust the things that had chaned.However it will never work between Major updates as lots of thigs move around (CTs,WCDs etc.). heck some minor updates might not work 100%
So this Request made by Echo a long, long time ago is awesome for theater creators, but it id defiantly not the holy grail.
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Holy grail or not in a few days u have a compatible theater.
Sent from TapaTalk
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Holy grail or not in a few days u have a compatible theater.
Sent from TapaTalk
it’s not because a DB compare tool…
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Two things:
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The units / vehicles of ITO theater are already included in the stock Korean DB. This alone makes migration easier than other theaters.
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IMHO, the best approach would be -in future major updates- to split the sole koreanobj.lod file into two files. One that includes features and objectives and another that includes vehicles, units and weapons. This way we could save lots of time, since theater specific features and objectives could be migrated by a simple copy & paste of the first koreanobj.lod.
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Two things:
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The units / vehicles of ITO theater are already included in the stock Korean DB. This alone makes migration easier than other theaters.
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IMHO, the best approach would be -in future major updates- to split the sole koreanobj.lod file into two files. One that includes features and objectives and another that includes vehicles, units and weapons. This way we could save lots of time, since theater specific features and objectives could be migrated by a simple copy & paste of the first koreanobj.lod.
That could work.
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Actually not. Same work just 2 different files - databases to maintain.
The thing might be either:
1. THE TOOL
2. use the directories approach. If the theater has it’s own units and features and bla bla load them from their specific files.
So double files. Vanila BMS files. and theater files.
One more field for which is which to know as a flag.
So BMS updates their vanila database… theater dev’s don’t care the theater will work just fine. their data are on their own database set. so every theater will be depended to BMS updates only if database structure is changed. -
“fall back DB” i.e if you don’t find something in Theater DB then go to the DB benieth will cannot work on binary files, as you cannot skip indexes.
a Non-binary DB or at least a Binary DB with non-binary overlay DB would make it possible. but again, you are not immuned to things that shift around inside the DB.for example, I BMS choose to re-order weapon IDs in the BMS DB, then all hard-point entries on theater DBs would be useless without a matching adjustment.
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Well if exists on the theater database use theater database entry. If you are a programmer u know it’s doable. everything is doable the thing is how easy it is and how much structural changes are needed.
Something like that I’m sure will need structural changes. Oh dear… nightmare again… but final nightmare.
Same way as for textures. not that easy though.
So if in your db you have set your weapons in the order you want and only order is changed no prob.
If u set the relationship between the 2 correctly you can do whatever you like… the relationship will be just there. This is the key to solve your index problem. So you don’t mess with it. if u mess it’s considered a structural change and ok guys time for nightmare.
This on top will need the editor to be also coded for the changes… nor to mention a new version of LodEditor… and Monster terrain editor and so on and so forth so we all agree it’s not gonna happen cause if one of the chains link is broken or undoable it’s fubared. As I understand it code for LE doesn’t exist nor any other tool to do it’s work.Sure db is more tricky but…
THE TOOL is the holly grail.
anything else falls behind and making it more complicated and hard for coders.
So… where is the tool? :lol:
:lol: I found the name for it: T.T. aka THE TOOL. I might allow T.T.E. not “time to extinguish” but: THE TOOL Editor :rofl:
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When are we going to join together all the theater in a world wide theater ? We should send out a drone to map the globe and we use it for F4