AAR beginner questions
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Regarding that, i found it difficult to move my x-65 throttle in these small ranges, so i so it another Way:
Since You are able to open your airbrake not just “full out-full in” but in small moves as well, i approach the tanker with airbrake about 25% open and match his 300 as good als i can with the throttle. When i get close, i dont touch My throttle at all, instead i make small Speed changes by opening or closing the airbrake. I found this method much more precise than moving the throttle around too much.
But: Nor so easy to do in CAT III and the Tanker at FL240 -
Thank you all for your input! Still not sure about the Cougar and if I need to modify it with a hall sensor (at least the thrust), or if it is possible without.
I think this advice sound very reasonable and I will try it out as soon as possible:
I’ve heard others have had fine control issues with Cougar throttles. Something to do with ‘resolution’ (?) 8-bit?
OTOH people have learned to AAR with simple, low quality ‘thumb-throttle’ joysticks and even (reportedly) with game controllers
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I’ve heard others have had fine control issues with Cougar throttles. Something to do with ‘resolution’ (?) 8-bit?
OTOH people have learned to AAR with simple, low quality ‘thumb-throttle’ joysticks and even (reportedly) with game controllers
So a TUSBA would be a solution?
I never played BMS with my MS Sidewinder. I might give it a try to sort this out.
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My “enlightenment” w/r to AAR came when I started moving the throttle back and forth in a seesaw motion constantly while closely monitoring the visual picture (as others have pointed out). I’m on a stock and very sloppy cougar too.
Keep the “realistic” setting unless you want to re-learn everything once you progress.
Try the following (depending on loadout and remaining total weight of course):
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Line up behind the tanker, ignore the airspeed indicator
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Grip your cougar stick with only your index / middle finger and thumb near the bottom of the base (no full-fist grip like during normal flight). This will allow much more fine-grained control of the lateral movement of the plane
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if using head tracking, consider switching it off for the first couple of successful contacts (I have that FacetrackNoIR function mapped to F7 I think)
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Move the throttle up to (but not beyond, unless you’re really heavy) the first a/b stop, keep if there for a couple of seconds, retract the throttle to near idle, keep it there for a second, move it forward again
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rinse and repeat the previous step until you see you’re keeping a constant distance to the tanker. Ignore the HUD completely, you’ll notice when it’s working by the visual picture alone.
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Once you’ve done that, keep up the seesawing but lengthen or shorten the “throttle at rest” (either forward or backward) times depending on weather you want move towards or away from the tanker.
It may seem a bit awkward at first, but you’ll quickly discover that it’s much easier this way staying a ta constant speed (which means constant distance) using a stock cougar throttle.
Please let us know how you progress.
Uwe
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Great topic and the Youtube videos were inspiring. I too am unable to AAR at the moment but I am headed over to my game machine right now to practice. Thanks everyone for the tips!
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Great topic and the Youtube videos were inspiring. I too am unable to AAR at the moment but I am headed over to my game machine right now to practice. Thanks everyone for the tips!
When I was unable to tank, my buddies and I thought this was a myth. That you couldn’t do it outside of doing it in real life. There just isn’t that many cues when you’re sat down staring at a monitor vs. when you’re in the real thing. Those who claimed otherwise were liars, or were exceptionally skilled. Then it happened. We were able to get into position and stay there long enough for maybe two drops of fuel. That was it. Myth busted. It may have been a fluke, but it IS possible! Once that illusion was shattered, it was so much easier to be patient, to keep frustration at bay. Just try to re-create the fluke. Then re-create it again. And again. And again. Over time, we were able to connect more and more. 2 drops became 4 drops, then half the tank, then we were able to connect long enough to fill up totally. And this was in 4.32 with the really strong “tractor beam!”
4.33 came out and the “tractor beam” lost some of it’s power. But no matter. I was able to connect so many times now that I knew all I needed was to get used to the new parameters. I was able to connect twice as the tanker was turning back in 4.32, so surely I can manage straight-and-level in 4.33! And again, just practice, practice, and practice.
That last phrase… so easy to say when you can do it, words filled with so much wisdom. For those that have never connected before, it’s like an insult, like salt being rubbed into a wound. From someone who has felt that way before, what I can say is this: don’t be insulted, don’t be frustrated. You couldn’t ride your bike with no trainer wheels the first time you were on it; it will be the same for this. But keep at it and you’ll get there!
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…Don’t be insulted, don’t be frustrated. You couldn’t ride your bike with no trainer wheels the first time you were on it; it will be the same for this. But keep at it and you’ll get there!
I’m trying Ice. I’m trying. In fact, due to this thread I’ve decided to practice it every day (my RL schedule permitting) until I get the hang of it. I really really want to be able to get some of that precious jet fuel (is it JP5 or JP8). =D
Anyway I spent about 45 minutes today at it and never connected. I’ll give it another go after dinner. I will say flying with the HUD off improved my approach. Also coming in at an angle made it easier to gauge the closure rate. It was pretty smooth up to about 3 boom lengths away. I didn’t have much problem matching the tanker’s heading even through a turn. More than anything its my oscillating up and down that seems to be the problem. So if I could just keep from getting vertically squirrely I think I’d be close to getting those first couple of drops!
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Thank you all! Did practice almost every day this week. I will keep you posted.
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Do you fly multiplayer? If so, try flying close formation when the mission permits. You’ll be practicing the same skills used in AAR without making it a “chore”.
Because above all: it’s all about having fun while learning
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I’m trying Ice. I’m trying. In fact, due to this thread I’ve decided to practice it every day (my RL schedule permitting) until I get the hang of it. I really really want to be able to get some of that precious jet fuel (is it JP5 or JP8). =D
Anyway I spent about 45 minutes today at it and never connected. I’ll give it another go after dinner. I will say flying with the HUD off improved my approach. Also coming in at an angle made it easier to gauge the closure rate. It was pretty smooth up to about 3 boom lengths away. I didn’t have much problem matching the tanker’s heading even through a turn. More than anything its my oscillating up and down that seems to be the problem. So if I could just keep from getting vertically squirrely I think I’d be close to getting those first couple of drops!
My initial issues with tanking… once I could get in the proper vicinity… was that being so close to the tanker just felt so dangerous to me. I was right at the edge of panic, and that made me so tense. Like I said, relaxing is key. Heck, even now, I can connect to a KC-10 comfortably but a KC-135? I’m still not comfortable how close I need to be with the -135 in order to connect.
Pilot-induced oscillation? Recognize it for what it is, back off, stabilize, then come back in. It’s easier to correct when you’ve got some room to work with. Pretty soon, you won’t need that much time and space to “correct” the PIO.
I think the first thing you should practice, if you aren’t doing so already, is getting to the pre-contact position and staying there. If you are in that position and you can stay there for a few seconds, the tanker should clear you in. If you are in that position and you are stable in that position, all it takes is a quick burst of throttle to slide forward into the proper refuelling position. If you can’t get to the pre-contact position and if you can’t be stable in the pre-contact position, you’ll have a nightmare of a time once you’re under the tanker.
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Copy that Ice. Will practice holding the pre-contact position!
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Still not there. But I think I have improved a lot since I turned off the HUD as suggest in this thread. It really helped a lot.
(Got myself a Warthog, makes it a bit more precise also…)
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Almost success! I am pretty stoked. Tonight I got contact about 5 times in an hour and I was on the pipe for roughly 1000 lbs during one of those connects. I need a beer my nerves are shot LOL!!!
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Even better today. It took me an hour and a half but I took on 7000 lbs! Sitting at 10,313 lbs. WOOT for baby steps!
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Nice! Just remember… relax! The more tense you are, the more difficult it will be!
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I just nailed it. Full top off before the tanker made it’s second turn on the Training Manual TE.
I noticed that my CH Fighterstick had a bit of play at the center so I turned the gain down just 1 tick and the dead zone up by 1 tick for both the X and Y axis. I was able to make much more gentle changes in pitch and roll.
Now I need to fly some regular missions and see if that change messes the rest of the game up.
Other than that, I’ll be doing refueling practice. Hopefully every day through March so I can do it in a timely manner when flying with others.
My thanks to everyone here for all the help and encouragement! I am stoked about this! I’ll be going deep deep behind enemy lines soon!
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Congrats!
Now go do it at night. :twisted:
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I’m still struggling. I need much more formation flying practice. Once I eventually line up, I can generally stay connected for a full top off, but I can’t stay anywhere near close when in the turn. I’ve found that the suggestion above of holding the stick at the base has helped the finer adjustments as it’s sort of a ‘mechanical gain’. You have to physically move your hand further to get the same output so you have finer control.
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