Modding Missiles
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i think so
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Also is there a way to change the range the AI will engage from?
Yes. Both in DB with inbuilt editor of F4Brwose you have to change the range data of the AAM and in dat files at the end of the file (as I can remember) are the range table brakepoints.
Altitude Breakpoints
ownship vel breakpoints
aspect breakpointsWhat do you wish to change and why?
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I am modding the R-33/AA-9 missile in falcon to become the R-37/AA-13, adding a loft bias to it and increasing its range, in game the current is not realistic at all.
with those break points you are basically adding points to a surface
(x,y) = z
(velocity, altitude) = (what_are_the_units_for_this)
my guess is meters/yards?not too worried about corrupting my install, will just reinstall (have done may times)
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I am modding the R-33/AA-9 missile in falcon to become the R-37/AA-13, adding a loft bias to it and increasing its range, in game the current is not realistic at all.
May I ask you how you came to that conclusion?
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I am modding the R-33/AA-9 missile in falcon to become the R-37/AA-13, adding a loft bias to it and increasing its range, in game the current is not realistic at all.
with those break points you are basically adding points to a surface
(x,y) = z
(velocity, altitude) = (what_are_the_units_for_this)
my guess is meters/yards?not too worried about corrupting my install, will just reinstall (have done may times)
I have not tried AA-9 but AIM-54 is problematic. It has simply too big drag. I tried it at 30k feet launch alt against a 30k target but kinematic range is way, way less then should be. If AA-9 got similar Cd/Cl values you cannot fix it by adding more lofting.
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Problematic ? Its launch range against a [fictional] fixed target at 30k with launcher at 30k ft is around 75 NM. That means 100 NM for a head-on target, give or take, and 50 NM for a tail-on target.
You do have to follow the loft cue though, the optimal loft is around 35° for these conditions in-game.
The drag was extrapolated from this data :
https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/126521-OTHER-001-001.pdf -
That’s pretty far range to get full support for missile.
What bubble size is the current build set for A/A AC, my guess you’d need 75+nm which if memory is right is above or about max hardcode value (unless it was changed) -
WOW, look what the cat drag in!!!
Cheers Ed_1!!
C9
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Problematic ? Its launch range against a [fictional] fixed target at 30k with launcher at 30k ft is around 75 NM. That means 100 NM for a head-on target, give or take, and 50 NM for a tail-on target.
You do have to follow the loft cue though, the optimal loft is around 35° for these conditions in-game.
The drag was extrapolated from this data :
https://prod.nais.nasa.gov/eps/eps_data/126521-OTHER-001-001.pdfCan you post an ACMI about it? Becase I tried it and was nowhere close to 45 nm the range not 75 nm…
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There you go, against a slow target head-on a 60 NM.
We are already inside ROpt, so if you loft, RPI will follow as well ; and RAero is in the realm of 100 NM.
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There you go, against a slow target head-on a 60 NM.
We are already inside ROpt, so if you loft, RPI will follow as well ; and RAero is in the realm of 100 NM.
I asked about ACMI about the engagement and not a screenshot about a DLZ/NEZ display. As I know you can give the AIM-54 NEZ display to AIM-9. So the range display proves nothing.
I have reported this in suggestion thread but i will show on ACMI with AIM-54 and AIM-7M. I have sent one of my friend via email but I deleted the emai. He also noticed the problem that AIM-54 is impotent rangewise.
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Not if the range data was directly computed from the actual performance in-game…
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#–---------------------------------------------------
number of ownship vel breakpoints
#-----------------------------------------------------
3
+0.000000 +800.000000 +1300.000000#-----------------------------------------------------
number of aspect breakpoints
#-----------------------------------------------------
6
+0.000000 +10000.000000 +20000.000000
+30000.000000 +40000.000000 +50000.000000Alt = 0.0
Vel = 0.0
+70693.000000 +69634.000000 +66051.000000 +49881.000000 +38033.000000 +23127.000000
Just one row/column ( 0, 0) of the alt/vel/aspect diagram witht he final result being some value the ai uses to choose how far away to engage their target (its why the ai always shoot at around the same distance).
Question:
what are the units for the final value?
what is an aspect of 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, 50,000?
from what google has told me aspect is the angle the target is from you velocity vector, normally in degrees/radians. -
There you go, against a slow target head-on a 60 NM.
We are already inside ROpt, so if you loft, RPI will follow as well ; and RAero is in the realm of 100 NM.
Here is the proof. Even at very high alt AIM-7M has better range than AIM-54.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jd8pw2c42wkak0g/AIM-54-test.zipAIM-54 performance is nowhere close to RL. Targets were flying higher in test then in RL and even this factor AIM-54 was not able to reach the target.
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Question:
what are the units for the final value?
Feets.
what is an aspect of 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, 50,000?
from what google has told me aspect is the angle the target is from you velocity vector, normally in degrees/radians.Actually, on these range data, it is target altitude.
Depending on what RMaxTableType is set, the last value can either be aspect or target altitude.
With RMaxTableType set to 0 (the original range computation done by MicroProse), it should be aspect.
How this algo works is very weird, so I cant comment much on thatWith RMaxTableType set to 1 (new range computation by BMS), it should be TA.
With this algo (introduced in 4.32 with the 120 only, expanded in 4.33 to most missiles), range should be what the range will be on a stationary target.Ex : at launcher altitude 20000 ft, speed 800 ft/s, target altitude 20000 ft, the missile you posted can hit a stationary target at up to 66 000 ft in horizontal distance.
Based on that figure an target aspect, the DLZ is then computed to see what is the range on a moving target.Here is the proof. Even at very high alt AIM-7M has better range than AIM-54.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/jd8pw2c42wkak0g/AIM-54-test.zipAIM-54 performance is nowhere close to RL. Targets were flying higher in test then in RL and even this factor AIM-54 was not able to reach the target.
http://kepkezelo.com/images/wq0ayh128zi91jivo1f2.jpgIt is possible that the drag wast properly done for the 7M (a bit too low) and a bit too high for the 54. I’ll take a look when I get the chance.
That being said, you diagram isnt that helpful to determine actual launch range, or if the launch was made with a loft or not.
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Thanks it all makes complete sense now!
Just wondering if the team uses a program to modify these files, I see a “Missile Data Manager: ver"0.1.8.0” at the top but couldn’t find it on google or this site (or any of the related sites).
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It is possible that the drag wast properly done for the 7M (a bit too low) and a bit too high for the 54. I’ll take a look when I get the chance.
That being said, you diagram isnt that helpful to determine actual launch range, or if the launch was made with a loft or not.
AIM-7M performance is good. At very high alt the launch rage was 75 km but impact point was only at about 40km from my F-14.
On diagram the AC icons shows the moment of launch and the hits are also displayed. Here is the descr. of this tottally unique event, this was the only 6x target test with AIM-54.
http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.PrintNewsStory&id=2943
November 21 – First Phoenix proves effectiveness in full-arsenal testing on an F-14 operating over the Pacific Missile Sea Test Range. The F-14 fired six Phoenix missiles over a 38-second period and guided them simultaneously at six separate targets 50 miles away, obtaining four direct hits. Flown by CDR John R. “Smoke” Wilson and LCDR Jack Hauver, the Tomcat was flying at speed of M0.78 and an altitude of 24,800 ft - while the target drones were flying at speeds of M0.6 to M1.1. This was the only time six Phoenix were launched by a single aircraft.
1973
June – Hughes completed their testing program with a world record-setting performance; launched from an F-14A over
Pt. Mugu, a Phoenix missile was launched against a BQM-34E Firebee drone at a distance of 110 nautical miles.This shows the max. range of drone of 6x launch testi is possible and has been done.
AIM-54 always do lofting because of its drag and single “stage” engine.