Landing practice
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Hmmmm, not quite cause I don’t get it either :rofl:
What’s left then? Canine humour… or long wavelength humour… I don’t know…
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What’s left then? Canine humour… or long wavelength humour… I don’t know…
Neither do I… Red God, mind explaining yourself there? :rofl:
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No joke
Falcon Te’s have team and I assure you there is a swiss teamAnd no I don’t drink
Here’s the proof : screenshot of the UI after exiting a Te, saving it and then trying to load it: -
@Red:
No joke
Falcon Te’s have team and I assure you there is a swiss teamAnd no I don’t drink
Here’s the proof : screenshot of the UI after exiting a Te, saving it and then trying to load it:Aha, that explains it all :mrgreen:
Seems like we were all thinking something else but couldn’t figure out what :rofl: -
LOL, that is called Falcon humor!
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Hello. Noob question - I want to practice landing, starting from a straight on approach. In the following thread,
there’s the suggestion to use the campaign save trigger. The only logical line I find in my keyfile is: (CampaignQuickSave -1 0 0x10 0 0x2E 4 1 “SIM: Campaign-QuickSave (Host only)”. So I flew (TE1 Training) to a point I’d want the TE to start from, and pressed Alt-C + q. But I don’t see anything saved in either the TE or Campaign saved panes. What am I missing? Does that "Host Only"mean this only works for an MP session host. If so, how can a solo player do it?
Guess if I can’t do it that way, I’ll have to learn the TE editor. Sigh.
Thx -Ron
Hi Ron, do you still need help and I am also from NJ, I have my server up. Do you have TeamSpeak??
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Red Dog shall from hereon have the callsign “Swiss”.
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Hi Ron, do you still need help and I am also from NJ, I have my server up. Do you have TeamSpeak??
Hi TAC-1, thx for the PM. Yes, 4.33U3. No TeamSpeak. Thanks for the MP thought, but afraid it’ll be a long time before I’m ready for that. I’m aware of Krause’s dictum about jumping in, but I can’t even land the plane yet - not in one piece anyway . I’m also shopping for a new computer with gaming specs. (Anyone have an opinion on Powerspec? - it’s the house brand of MicroCenter here in US.) Been intrigued by Falcon ever since Microprose, but never did get far with it. Am amazed by the development path it’s taken - sorta a paradigm for international cooperation. (Thank you developers!)
Thx again. Will get in touch about MP if I get that far. Meantime gotta practice making time for practicing .
-Ron
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I’m aware of Krause’s dictum about jumping in, but I can’t even land the plane yet - not in one piece anyway .
-Ron
Hello there.
Well get this pdf file here: http://www.185th.co.uk/files/Training/Assessment/F-16_Landing_Tutorial.pdf , read it and then landing will be like a walk in the park…
Nikos. -
Once you get it on the ground solid, you can start doing Touch and Go’s for proficiency. That just means instead of stopping once you touch down, you roll a bit on the runway and push the power back up to turn it into a takeoff roll–if you keep the speed in check you can leave the gear down and do a tight “closed” approach by just doing a 180 to parallel the runway with a 1-2NM offset, then another 180 off the approach end. Not sure how many you can get away with in BMS, I seem tor recall more than a few landings starts causing the “Random” malfunctions to creep in on the breaks or gear, but this is one of the big tools RL pilots use to stay proficient. Typically you do some pattern work tacked on to the start or end of a training sortie, but occasionally you can just do a full-on proficiency sortie which is nothing but approaches with (hopefully) a tanker thrown in somewhere. In BMS, the tower will yell at you if you do this so it may be a good idea to do it in a TE with no other aircraft around and just turn off the radio, or if you want some good practice with a little direction you can declare a missed approach with tower and they will vector you back out and in again for a full on approach with all the headings.
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Hello there.
Well get this pdf file here: http://www.185th.co.uk/files/Training/Assessment/F-16_Landing_Tutorial.pdf , read it and then landing will be like a walk in the park…
Nikos.Normal landing looks good. The SFO is incorrect. You don’t want to be that steep end game; it’ll cause you to swap ends and if you notice in your pictures you’re landing very long. You want to aim about 2 underruns short (~1500’) and gradually shift your aimpoint. Shoot for 190 knots over the threshold and touchdown in the first 1/3 of the runway.
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You obviously know what your talking about but would that speed be for a max weight aircraft ? How about Min weight ? On average in BMS I’ve always been a lot slower.
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in the case of an engine out situation, higher and faster is always better than lower and slower.
higher you can correct
faster you can correct
slower you can’t correct
lower you can’t correct unless you really have higher speedsso even though 190 seems high, i would never come in to land with no engine at the same airspeed i’d land with engine.
I need a bit of buffer for my own comfort zoneof course in bms if you screw up you don’t die
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You want to calculate SFO numbers. Your baseline gear up glide to give you max range (7 AOA) is calculated by 200 + 5 knots per 1000 lbs of fuel/stores (in a C model). For example if I know I have 2k lbs of stores and 2k lbs of fuel, then I want to fly 220 with the gear up. With gear down you subtract 10 knots so 210 in this case. And subtract another 10 for your no slower than airspeed. No matter what weight or config, you will calculate these numbers and then see how it compares to 7 AOA and fly that. Until you get over the threshold where you want about 190 knots so you don’t land long or come up short.
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The book breaks up the straight-in flameout landing pattern into zones. If you can hit “high key” then do the overhead instead. There is a “point A” which represents a maximum practical glide evaluated as 8nm at 7000’ AGL. Outside of point A the airplane will not intercept the 11-17 approach angle above 2000’ AGL. The directive if you’re point A or slightly closer (but not as close as the B’s) is to fly max range glide until the approach angle is within the B-band.
Point B represents the maximum margin FO straight-in approach energy condition evaluated as the middle of 11-17 at 4nm to go. The limits of the the B zone are denoted B1 and B2 evaluated as 6nm and 4nm at 7000’ respectively. The 11 and 17 degree glide figures are minimum and maximum practical angles with gear extended. The 17 represents gear and full speedbrakes while the 11 represents gear and no speedbrakes. When landing is assured and in the B-band, lower gear and fly optimum gear down speed until 2000’ AGL.
Inside B2 is called Area C and a straight-in is not recommended and an overhead or modified overhead is better. The required glide angle even with gear and speedbrakes out results in excessive speed. It is possible to convert from (slightly) inside Area C to straight-in by diving even steeper to intercept the 11-17 angle band from above.
EPU fuel minimums A 45%; B1 35%; B2 or overhead 25%. During the glide to a flameout landing maintain a 1000’/1nm ratio above optimum glide speed if EPU fuel quantity is in doubt. An optimum range glide from high altitude will require more EPU fuel than is available. Maintain the highest average glide speed consistent with available altitude.
Initial aimpoint for approach is 1/3 down runway. When landing is assured (2000’, gear locked, optimum gear down speed, 11-17 approach) aimpoint shifts short of intended touchdown (by ~3000-4000) in anticipation of float. Flare should ideally occur in the 10 knot window between optimum and min LG down speeds.
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What is the secret behind aligning PAPI and the AOA bracket with the FPM. If I have two red and two white on the PAPI my FPM is not in the AOA. (see screenshot)
If I on the other hand ignore PAPI, my FPM is withing the AOA with the donut. Is there a trick to align both?Other than that I do land smooth. Nose wheel up, lowering at 80 kts., NWS engage below 50 kts. and so on.
Landing with emphasis on AOA rather than PAPI, no crash, smooth landing with soft touch down.
AOA hot, PAPI not. I crashed immediately after taking this screen. Note that I can only align AOA at this low altitude, otherwise the FPM will be way above the AOA bracket as in the screens above:
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What is the secret behind aligning PAPI and the AOA bracket with the FPM. If I have two red and two white on the PAPI my FPM is not in the AOA. (see screenshot)
If I on the other hand ignore PAPI, my FPM is withing the AOA with the donut. Is there a trick to align both?Other than that I do land smooth. Nose wheel up, lowering at 80 kts., NWS engage below 50 kts. and so on.
PAPI hot, AOA not:
https://abload.de/thumb/2017-04-05_231854rdp5t.pnghttps://abload.de/thumb/2017-04-05_231904jurvy.png
https://abload.de/thumb/2017-04-05_231925iqokq.png
Landing with emphasis on AOA rather than PAPI, no crash, smooth landing with soft touch down.
https://abload.de/thumb/2017-04-05_233821ybq9n.png
https://abload.de/thumb/2017-04-05_23384954rhs.png
AOA hot, PAPI not. I crashed immediately after taking this screen. Note that I can only align AOA at this low altitude, otherwise the FPM will be way above the AOA bracket as in the screens above:
You won’t fly the PAPIs for a VFR approach. The PAPIs will have you aiming 1,000’ down the runway, resulting in a touchdown 1,500’ down the runway which is longer than we want. Additionally, most people fly a 2.5 degree approach in the Viper. PAPIs are usually for something steeper like 3 degrees.
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If you fly like the fifth picture - Indexer in the green/dashed line through the PAPI - you will grease it on every time. The “trick” is to use overshoot/undershoot to get the dashed line through the desired touchdown point…the numbers, once you get close enough to see them. Then put your FPM on the numbers. But keep your Indexer in the green, put your FPM on the desired touch down point, and modulate throttle. That’s the way I do it.
This is the way to fly a Navy approach, BTW. The “prescribed” Viper approach with the FPM at the top of the bracket is actually faster than on-speed - which is where you are with the Indexer in the green; on-speed. If you need to slow your decent rate hold attitude and add a bit of power - this is also a Navy “flare”…squeek on a tad of power to arrest sink just before touchdown, and you’ll squeek onto the runway. Takes some practice, but once you get it, you’ve got it.
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If you fly like the fifth picture - Indexer in the green/dashed line through the PAPI - you will grease it on every time. The “trick” is to use overshoot/undershoot to get the dashed line through the desired touchdown point…the numbers, once you get close enough to see them. Then put your FPM on the numbers. But keep your Indexer in the green, put your FPM on the desired touch down point, and modulate throttle. That’s the way I do it.
This is the way to fly a Navy approach, BTW. The “prescribed” Viper approach with the FPM at the top of the bracket is actually faster than on-speed - which is where you are with the Indexer in the green; on-speed. If you need to slow your decent rate hold attitude and add a bit of power - this is also a Navy “flare”…squeek on a tad of power to arrest sink just before touchdown, and you’ll squeek onto the runway. Takes some practice, but once you get it, you’ve got it.
The 13 degree approach will get you stopped much quicker without a doubt. And I think some old guys fly it this way. The way they currently teach it is 11 degrees because the 11-2F-16V3 says to fly it that way AND there is more margin for error. With a 13 degree approach you are more susceptible to burner scrapes. But completely agree with you.