Cougar FSSB/FCC/? mod
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FSSB R3
Max. applied force 13 Lbs
Max. allowed force 20 LbsFSSB R1 & R2
Max. Applied force 35 Lbs
Max. allowed force 45 Lbsfrom realsimulator.com
For Pushes, the “moveable” stick is actually the same as the original fixed stick. The deflection is purely due to bending of the stick. 0.0" at 0.0 lbs (obviously) and about 0.019" at 20lbs of force (again, forward force). The max command that the FLCS recognizes is at about 0.017", so there is just a little bit of deadband.
For Pulls, the actual (due to mechanical deflection) displacement is linear from 0.0" at 0.0 lbs to 0.178" at 31 lbs. This point (0.178"/31 lbs also results in the max command the FLCS can generate, assuming pitch trim is zero). Beyond 31 lbs, the stick only bends (as for the push case, and with the same gradient). At 40lbs the total displacment is about 0.186". This combo is significant because it will give max nose-up command in the FLCS if pitch trim is full nose down.
Quoted from F-16.net
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20428You might need FSSB R1/R2 if you would like to have realistic force required.
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Just bear in mind that the higher the forces set, the more impossible it will become to use the modded cougar on an office desk.
if you use high force settings you WILL have to place the hotas as the real one -
Also, remember highest forces can end up with a broken tailpiece. Happened to me and others. I replaced it with a stainless steel one.
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There was a time when I DID fly a great many hours per week. I wore out a FSSB R1 mod in about 5 years. Replaced it with an R2 about 5 years ago.
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Or bolt it to the desk… then topple the computer off the desk, get frustrated, and buy a VERY heavy desk to compensate for stick forces…
Or bolt it to the desk… then topple the computer off the desk, get frustrated, and buy a VERY heavy desk to compensate for stick forces…
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oups, used edit rather than reply, sorry mate (been corrected )
the problem won’t be the desk, it’s rather going to be the pain in the arm and shoulder
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regarding sensitivity forces applied…
This is where I call out the difference between kinetic (if not frenetic) and heart surgeon stick force inputters. Some guys are just very physical with their joysticks (ie not body parts), and others are not. It also goes back to why some pilots like positional sticks (like the stock warthog and cougar) and others want force FBW mods, not only the input forces but also the feedback of moving something and its translation to flight. In real life, this was a big problem for some pilots transitioning to the Viper when it introduced FBW FSS.
So your flying style might also be a factor in choosing not only force sensitivities, but also static or positional sticks. For the kinetic cowboys, the Warthog stays on the table much better than the Cougar’s, as Reddog mentioned.
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@Red:
oups, used edit rather than reply, sorry mate (been corrected )
the problem won’t be the desk, it’s rather going to be the pain in the arm and shoulder
Yah, its a factor too. Especially in BFM
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I have a Cougars modded with FCC3 and FSSB-R1. They are almost identical except how the pressure sensitivity is adjusted. The FSSB R1 and R2 are just quality of parts (MTBF) which is life cycle, not sensitivity.
I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.
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Do what I did. Spend months designing a desk ‘addon’ that is study enough to have a force sensing stick added to it. I’ve finished the build but haven’t bought the stick yet ha.
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I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.
it will have when the “Warthog version” will come out.
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it will have when the “Warthog version” will come out.
The current FFC3 has pots you can adjust.
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The current FFC3 has pots you can adjust.
The trim pots are for centering. Not for sensitivity
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I see the R1 allows pressure to be modified by dip switches, does the FCC3 have anything similar or does it rely on you modifying curves in the cougar software? I’ll have to do a bit more reading on this but it sounds like I’d be happy with either the FCC3 or R1. Cheers everyone for the advice.
Its raw input has no adjustment, however the input windows ends up seeing gets modified first, twice. First modification is due to the calibration file, which is where you set sensitivity for the stick if you are using FCC3. Second modification is you can use curves to modify the output, and you can configure these curves on the fly with Foxy.
Completely ignore the option for curves, leave it linear. BMS applies its own transforms to your inputs with the assumption that your input is linear.
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The FSSB has sensitivity settings done via dip switches, but no tactile feedback adjustments (slight stick movement)
The FCC3 doesnt have hardware sensitivity adjustments as it can be done in software in curves and CCP calibration (i believe the strain gauges are preset to the real stick force pull specs), but it does come with either no mounting bushings, metal spring mount bushings or rubber o-ring bushings that provides different tactile feedback. The real FBW FSS has some stick play tactile feedback deflection, about 1/8 - 1/4 in iirc.
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The FSSB has sensitivity settings done via dip switches, but no tactile feedback adjustments (slight stick movement)
The FCC3 doesnt have hardware sensitivity adjustments as it can be done in software in curves and CCP calibration (i believe the strain gauges are preset to the real stick force pull specs), but it does come with either no mounting bushings, metal spring mount bushings or rubber o-ring bushings that provides different tactile feedback. The real FBW FSS has some stick play tactile feedback deflection, about 1/8 - 1/4 in iirc.
the “WH” version of FCC will have adjustable absolute force settings (along with some other “Easter eggs”)
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Will it be worth upgrading to, for existing owners? Or will it not be compatible with the Cougar?
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the “WH” version of FCC will have adjustable absolute force settings (along with some other “Easter eggs”)
I wants one for my WHog. Can it be retro fitted to either the Cougar or Whog?
Is URI-BA = Arend?
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I believe Uri-ba is helping Arend with the software. But when it’s all ready, you can get it all here…
http://www.vipercore.nl/index.php
…I’m planning to.
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I’m no Arend
The FCC itself is pretty much the same naturally.But the Warthog version of the FCC has an independent USB controller, so it does not really matter what you have (you just need the grip).
Arend has designed the board to be a drop in replacement for the WH board (PCB size, mounting holes ect.), but that doesn’t mean you can’t install it as an independent controller for a cougar based FCC. You will then need to find a solution for your throttle