Chaff/flare loadout
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Just curious. Why do you need so many chaffs? I always have enough chaff, but flares are always short. I would prefer 40/60% split between chaff and flare. Long range radar missiles are easy to avoid without chaff, only the short range IR missiles are problematic.
Pandacat, what Redshirt said . As you can tell from my signature I like DEAD, and in that scenario I use lot of chaff, especially as I try to attack from medium altitude( ie: above MANPAD range). There’s also the issue, especially at night, of trying to avoid showing the BadGuys where I am.
My flare usage is for AA IR threats, and I’ll launch a few when I do attack from low level. For that I have CMS left programmed to launch one flare per CMS left. I think 25/75 flare/chaff is better for me, although if I start running out of flares your ratio sounds quite logical.
BTW, Rybo, please refresh my memory-acdata is in which folder? -
Acdata is in the acdata folder trololo :mrgreen:
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In converse, the same with goes for IR, chaff is useless
In BMS yes. IRL, not necessary true in all cases (depending on missile … and prox fuse.)
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prox fuse
Very interesting, so with that type of fusing, if it flies through the foil, then it thinks it hit something and kablooey! Learn something everyday
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Very interesting, so with that type of fusing, if it flies through the foil, then it thinks it hit something and kablooey! Learn something everyday
Wow, I’m imagining, maybe wrongly, an aircraft dropping chaffs and flying straight to make sure the missile hits the chaffs on its way :D. Actually I suppose it’s more a matter of luck than measured risk in that case.
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Wow, I’m imagining, maybe wrongly, an aircraft dropping chaffs and flying straight to make sure the missile hits the chaffs on its way :D. Actually I suppose it’s more a matter of luck than measured risk in that case.
I’ve always had the mindset(perhaps incorrect), that especially when using my multi sequence Slap program, I’m changing direction with each sequence.
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I’ve always heard - “you have to dogfight the missile”…so - make sure it’s tracking, change direction and dispense. Repeat until the second one gets you.
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the best choice is always not to close past MAR, esp. in falcon where missiles are capable of occasionally hitting targets.
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Can anybody comment on newer flare systems? I’m remembering a video I watched recently with Super hornets and growlers with a forward shooting flare?
5:15 for anybody interested
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Sorry, Hyge, I’ve not heard about that.
Meanwhile, I just experimented with changing expendables loadout. As previously mentioned, you want to go to acdata
The path is 4.33u1>Data>Sim>acdata then scroll down to your particular jet, in my case the f18c.Then scroll about 2/3 the way down to chaff/flare.
On my first try I simply changed the totals from 60/60 to 90/30 c/f. That had no effect in BMS.
So, I then tried turning flare1 to chaff 3, as entered right now…
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount3 30
ChaffDispensers 3
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 30
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 30Unfortunately, that had no effect , either.
Any tips? -
Can anybody comment on newer flare systems?
I think President-S is one of the most advanced nowdays, and surly future systems will use this technic moving away from just flares.
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I think President-S is on of the most advanced nowdays, and surly future systems will use this technic moving away from just flares.
It seems to drive the missile nuts.
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Sorry, Hyge, I’ve not heard about that.
Meanwhile, I just experimented with changing expendables loadout. As previously mentioned, you want to go to acdata
The path is 4.33u1>Data>Sim>acdata then scroll down to your particular jet, in my case the f18c.Then scroll about 2/3 the way down to chaff/flare.
On my first try I simply changed the totals from 60/60 to 90/30 c/f. That had no effect in BMS.
So, I then tried turning flare1 to chaff 3, as entered right now…
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffPos3 -2.50 -2.40 2.86
ChaffVec3 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount3 30
ChaffDispensers 3
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 30
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 30Unfortunately, that had no effect , either.
Any tips?Try this instead:
hasEWS 1
ecmStrength 0.000
nChaff 90
nFlare 30
FlareDispensers 1
FlareSeq 0
FlarePos1 1.45 -2.46 2.86
FlareVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
FlareCount1 30
ChaffDispensers 2
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffPos1 1.45 2.46 2.86
ChaffVec1 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount1 45
ChaffPos2 -2.50 2.40 2.86
ChaffVec2 0.00 0.00 75.00
ChaffCount2 45 -
Good evening, All,
Is there a way to change the chaff/flare loadout, in order to have 90 chaff and 30 flares?
I looked in my config settings and saw the EWS programs, bingo, and such, but not the totals.Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
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Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
Are the ALE-50 pylons used on USAF F-16CJ weasels and if so do they not have extra chaff buckets like PIDS pylons on MLUs? I think this maybe the extra capability Redshift is eluding to.
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Also keep in mind that what you are asking for is completely un-realistic to the blocks of F-16s simulated by BMS other than CFT loaded birds. If you wanted 90 chaff on the real block 25-52 minus CFT birds you would get zero flares.
Stubbies, at the moment I’m working on the Hornet C, which does have 120 expendables. However, I am under the impression the the Viper CJ does have a fourth bucket and 120 expendables, as well. Is that not correct? I’ve been looking around the 'net, haven’t found any specifics as yet. I did read in Viper Pilot that the CJ had more expendable capacity.
It’s an interesting question for me, since when I get the Hornet sorted out I will be trying to get the Block 52 Viper to CJ standards, less of course the ALE-50, which as has been discussed elsewhere is not to be modelled in BMS
Update: I found this: http://www.usaf-sig.org/index.php/reference/114-research-material/82-f-16-viper-faq-stuff-you-wanted-to-know-about-the-f-16cd
that does show 4 chaff/flare buckets -
Chaff canister can hold 30 cartridges, flare canister can hold 15 flares. Normally, advanced viper versions have 2-4 canister positions on the aft fuselage body, while dorsal spine equipped two-seaters carry from 4 to 6 extra canisters on the spine. The canisters themselves are fully switchable as per mission design, so you can have the proper amount of each countermeasure device. Moreover there are special versions of the MAU-12 weapon pylon as loaded in positions 3/7 which hosts 3 extra canisters per pylon (so total 6 extra), but this pylon is mainly available for MLU birds. Finally there is a special chaff canister which as per my knowledge atm is only available to IAF and Sufa model, which hosts 6 bigger chaff cartridges for improved defense performances.
The total amount of chaff/flares available to each bms aircraft model is configurable through its Flight Model .dat file, together with detailed positioning of each canister and type, as and ejection axis details. Although good approach, at the moment is a “static” feature “captive” to the FM. The most advanced approach (and IIRC already requested before in the so known wish-lists) is to have the ability to load the wanted amount of cartridges/canister types per flight/mission/plane, maybe in the weapons arming UI through a new selection option and/or WDP.
And to move feature another step forward (aka eye-candy vs DCS lol), since we happen to know the exact canister cartridge ignition / ejection, we can also model and skin the canister positions-colors through a new plates; solution thus to visually simulate externally the remaining amount of cartridges…
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Chaff canister can hold 30 cartridges, flare canister can hold 15 flares. Normally, advanced viper versions have 2-4 canister positions on the aft fuselage body, while dorsal spine equipped two-seaters carry from 4 to 6 extra canisters on the spine. The canisters themselves are fully switchable as per mission design, so you can have the proper amount of each countermeasure device. Moreover there are special versions of the MAU-12 weapon pylon as loaded in positions 3/7 which hosts 3 extra canisters per pylon (so total 6 extra), but this pylon is mainly available for MLU birds. Finally there is a special chaff canister which as per my knowledge atm is only available to IAF and Sufa model, which hosts 6 bigger chaff cartridges for improved defense performances.
The total amount of chaff/flares available to each bms aircraft model is configurable through its Flight Model .dat file, together with detailed positioning of each canister and type, as and ejection axis details. Although good approach, at the moment is a “static” feature “captive” to the FM. The most advanced approach (and IIRC already requested before in the so known wish-lists) is to have the ability to load the wanted amount of cartridges/canister types per flight/mission/plane, maybe in the weapons arming UI through a new selection option and/or WDP.
And to move feature another step forward (aka eye-candy vs DCS lol), since we happen to know the exact canister cartridge ignition / ejection, we can also model and skin the canister positions-colors through a new plates; solution thus to visually simulate externally the remaining amount of cartridges…
Thanks, Raptor. So, I’m being “realistic” wanting 90/30 chaff/flare on a Block 50/52 Viper, at least in terms of capacity? I’ll fight the “skin fight” another day.