HARM training mission: Left shifting / Trimming
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Hi there, again looking for explanations/help!
I’m doing the HARM training mission, these are my problems:
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Aircraft slightly shifts to the left
Right from the start of the mission the aircraft starts rolling to the left. Very gentle and subtle, almost not noticeable (at first), but it does.
I thought there is something wrong with my joystick, but after trying several other missions, where the viper just moves straight forever, it’s a speciality of this mission.
My first thought was, that the HTS as it is mounted on the left side causes the jet to go left as it always turns towards the heavier side.
Still I have the same behaviour after mounting a Target Pod on the other side… -
Trimming drives me crazy
I’ve already read a few threads about trimming, so I’m probably not alone. But when watching Youtube Tutorials everybody seems to have no problem at all with it. Sure, those guys have a lot of experience, but basically they can’t do anything other than myself - or can they?
I’ve tried using manual trimming (using the mouse, using keystrokes) instead of HOTAS trimming. I’ve even removed the “diagonal” button from the HOTAS trim switch to make sure I really only press 1x right and not accidentally a second time as I eventually move the hat slightly diagonal.
The main issue is, after trimming the aircraft (after so many tries I’m really good at it…) the aircraft is levelled - for a few seconds. Then it starts shifting again. In this process I am not doing anything (no change in throttle or pitch or whatever).
Let me describe that:The aircraft slightly turns right, I give just a “one-click” touch to the left. The airplane levels out and starts turning (very slightly) to the left.
(It should NOT do that, it just should remain on the same angle and not turn even more)
I give a “one-click” touch to the right.
The aircraft stays steady on the slight left angle.
(That’s what I want)
I level out the aircraft (very gentle).
The aircraft starts rolling to the right.
(WHAT, WHY?)I can’t do less than “one-click”. It seems as if it’s always too much.
At some point I got the aircraft levelled out again (more or less), still it’s not perfect. After a change of heigth and/or speed the trimming is gone anyway. I’ve read in other threads about it.
I really had my joystick under suspicion but as already said in other missions the viper is flying perfectly straight if I do not touch the joystick.
Also as a gamer with thousands of hours gaming experience I would consider myself capable of pressing buttons correctly or at least I’m able to adapt and learn.Well obviously not in this case, that’s why I need HELP!
PS: I’ve already managed A/A refuelling on 100% realism (took me about 3 hours of training), so I can’t be that incapable.
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Are you using pedals for rudder by chance?
Had that issue when I didn’t have a big enough dead zone and resting feet on them would cause some rudder input to be sensed. -
Nice thought!
Unfortunately, although I’m using pedals I do not rest my feet on them. But I will have a look at it!
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1 - Normal.
2 - Normal again … anytime your airspeed changes, you have to adjust roll trims. Especially if you have a pod (HTS or TGP).
The aircraft slightly turns right, I give just a “one-click” touch to the left. The airplane levels out and starts turning (very slightly) to the left.
I fell the same … Can’t do anything … In game, increment by “one click” is sometimes still “too much” … It is hard to totally null the drift. I do not know on the real jet (?).
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check your stick/rudder inputs to make sure they aren’t jumping.
other than that, fire weapons in pairs, trim the best you can and use autopilot.
but personally i never really have problems with that stuff, i guess.
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Thanks for the quick responses!
OK, if it’s just part of the game, I will deal with it!
As long as I know that it is just like that, I’m fine!
Thank you!
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In game, increment by “one click” is sometimes still “too much” … It is hard to totally null the drift. I do not know on the real jet (?).
Here’s what the real Dash One says : When properly trimmed and no input is applied to the stick , the aircraft attempts to maintain zero rollrate. Moving the ROLL TRIM wheel changes the hands-off trim condition. Maximum roll trim authority is approximately one-fifth of maximum stick command of cruise gains. However, precise trimming is difficult using the stick TRIM button.
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Here’s what the real Dash One says : When properly trimmed and no input is applied to the stick , t h e aircraf t attempts to maintain zero rollrate. Moving the ROLL TRIM wheel changes the hands-off trim condition. Maximum roll trim authority is approximately one-fifth of maximum stick command of cruise gains. However, precise trimming is difficult using the stick TRIM button.
Well, I sure wish BMS would model that somehow, maybe a TrimFinishUp callback that you could use when you got your aircraft 95% trimmed that it would keep your roll trim unless you had a major change in airspeed, etc.
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2 thoughts. I have a programmable joystick and programmed the trim hat with a .10 sec. delay between trim inputs. That helps ensure only one “button push”. Second. I believe that as the aircraft consumes fuel, resulting in constantly changing mass and center of gravity, constant trimming is required.
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2 thoughts. I have a programmable joystick and programmed the trim hat with a .10 sec. delay between trim inputs. That helps ensure only one “button push”. Second. I believe that as the aircraft consumes fuel, resulting in constantly changing mass and center of gravity, constant trimming is required.
Well maybe not. According to the ewildcat’s quote of the real -1 as to roll. If the quote is accurate, the aircraft attempts to maintain zero rollrate and I would think that means it normally succeeds unless you exceed the autotrim’s limits.
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Well maybe not. According to the ewildcat’s quote of the real -1 as to roll. If the quote is accurate, the aircraft attempts to maintain zero rollrate and I would think that means it normally succeeds unless you exceed the autotrim’s limits.
The manual adds : Roll trim requirements may change with stores, particularly at supersonic speeds. For asymmetric configurations (asymmetrical stores or rudder mistrim), roll retrimming may be required as flight conditions change.
Unless I’m mistaken, that’s what I see in Falcon 4.0.
NB : A properly roll trimmed plane at 1G won’t keep wings level if you pull the stick. Which also happens in Falcon 4.0. -
No such thing as ‘perfect’ trim. Only thing which will keep the aircraft in a fixed pitch roll configuration is the autopilot, because its feedback controller, and is trimming constantly. With a well trimmed aircraft, there should be little need (but not no need), to make adjustments.
From a quick test, i believe there is a small roll to port with the HTS, and a small roll to the starboard with both HTS and TGP. Each will cause a heading change of 3-4 deg/min starting level (although this is progressive if not corrected), and its hard to trim better than this. (try getting the trim back to center on a well balanced aircraft after you moved it, and you will notice the same problem unless you use trim reset).
My suggestion is use AP
+1 resting my feet on pedals have caught me out too.