Sustaining High G
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While some of the remarks in this thread are true, you have to remember we are looking at the sim world through a 60-ish degree FOV. In the real world we can see a much wider FOV and even move our eyeballs around while our head stays relatively still. We have no peripheral vision in the sim, so maybe being able to move our “head” isn’t such a bad thing.
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We have no peripheral vision in the sim, so maybe being able to move our “head” isn’t such a bad thing.
Correct. Good point!
But yeah, I remember that in the centrifuge at 8Gs during “long setup” I had difficulties to breath correctly … Under 8 - 9 on M2000 I wasn’t able to move my torso anymore.
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That’s one reason why I’ll look into the options to convert my TN 3D gaming vest driver/hardware into connecting it with my G-suit to have it inflate when pulling high G’s in the sim. Of course not inflating as much as real life because when not actually pulling G’s that could cause serious health issues. But enough to have additional SA on the matter; plus have 8-9G pinch hard enough to feel discomfort to keep me from doing too unrealistic BFM sessions
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That’s one reason why I’ll look into the options to convert my TN 3D gaming vest driver/hardware into connecting it with my G-suit to have it inflate when pulling high G’s in the sim. Of course not inflating as much as real life because when not actually pulling G’s that could cause serious health issues. But enough to have additional SA on the matter; plus have 8-9G pinch hard enough to feel discomfort to keep me from doing too unrealistic BFM sessions
Also make sure your wife is behind you with a hammer to knock you off when you G-Lock
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Idk what you mean. If you’re referring to me missing that’s cause I sucked at SNAP mode. The pipper was supposedly lagged like 0.5-1 sec behind trigger pull so I could never get used to it, even aiming ahead of the target like that.
Anyway. I was looking at those centrifuge videos on utube like Arty mentioned, but those guys aren’t training in g suits, and aren’t having air forced into their lungs. My guess is 9g like 10 seconds top. Cause it looks painful.
YEAH, i was talking about your sucky gun lol. NO, i meant the very foresight-full discplacement to left
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Also make sure your wife is behind you with a hammer to knock you off when you G-Lock
She already discovered my ejection handle works on my aces replica. She has pulled it a few times already when she wanted to talk to me urgently and I was ignoring her -
She already discovered my ejection handle works on my aces replica. She has pulled it a few times already when she wanted to talk to me urgently and I was ignoring herHaaaaaa! Lol
My girlfriend also discovered my ejection handle thank God :D:rolleyes: -
While some of the remarks in this thread are true, you have to remember we are looking at the sim world through a 60-ish degree FOV. In the real world we can see a much wider FOV and even move our eyeballs around while our head stays relatively still. We have no peripheral vision in the sim, so maybe being able to move our “head” isn’t such a bad thing.
Good point ended
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Flanker 1.5 used to have a limit on how much you could turn you head if you were pulling G.
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Flanker 1.5 used to have a limit on how much you could turn you head if you were pulling G.
? Nope. I do no see what you are talking about … Flanker 1.5 had only 2D snap views.
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@NIL:
Heard from F-16 pilots that when they embark on a high G turn, they look where they need to, and stay in that position because they can’t move their head anyway when pulling 9G. So as we would do in the sim, just look around while we press on with high G loads is not possible in RL. I tried a 6,4 G turn in the L-39, and believe me, you just can’t move freely. Just trying to raise your arm is hard.
If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
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once we lick inertial dampening, it will all be gravy
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
…“help” is relative. Also - note the added strain of having a JHMCS helmet on your head…more weight = more worse. This is another reason I’m not a real fan of TIR…and don’t care about looking at my dead six. My plan for a 270 degree surround is an attempt to mimic some of these effects by having to actually move my head naturally. And even so, I’m not going to be under G so I’ll probably be able to look further than I should be able to…the problem I haven’t quite noodled out is range of uplook…but I have some thoughts, involving 1-DOF head tracking.
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That’s one reason why I’ll look into the options to convert my TN 3D gaming vest driver/hardware into connecting it with my G-suit to have it inflate when pulling high G’s in the sim. Of course not inflating as much as real life because when not actually pulling G’s that could cause serious health issues. But enough to have additional SA on the matter; plus have 8-9G pinch hard enough to feel discomfort to keep me from doing too unrealistic BFM sessions
It’s not so much a pinching feeling but more a long, sustained pressure on your upper body. It’s like a fat dude standing on your chest and just pressing you down in your seat and make your spine a few inches shorter.
At least that’s how it felt for me.I don’t think we were pulling any more than 5.5G when I took this shot. We had come up in a vertical maneuver (for the classic sky-rocketing shot) but we had slightly messed up our timing, so the F-16C pulled out of the climb into a loop and rolled away. Taking us slightly by surprise, so we ended up above him, trying to keep up in the D-model, pulling quite hard to keep near him. This was shot through the top of the canopy but all I did was keeping the shutter pressed (10 frames per second to the rescue). There was no skill behind it, I could not move my camera (Canon 1D with 24-105mm on it, a combined weight of 2,3 KG so it felt like something of 13 KG or something) even if wanted to try it. I couldn’t even more my arms for that matter. I can’t even imagine how anyone can actually do anything at 7+ Gs?
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
What you’re referring to is this:
4.5.9 Head Positioning.
4.5.9.1 Improper head position during high G defensive turns is a common error. The first instinct is to attempt to support the weight of your head and helmet using your neck muscles alone. This is basically impossible, and can lead to serious muscle injury at high G levels. Equally unacceptable is the practice of looking at the adversary under low G, then looking forward during the break turn (High G), then looking back to reacquire the adversary after the speed and G bleed down. You cannot exploit a pursuit error you do not see.
4.5.9.2 The best technique is to use the seat headrest to support your helmet during the turn. The following example is for a right turning break:
4.5.9.2.1 As you begin the roll to Lv on/slightly low, rotate your upper torso about 45 degrees to the right, and lean your upper body slightly to the right. Turn your head to the right another 45 degrees or so and tilt it back just enough that you can see the adversary on the reference line with your eyeballs at their extreme upward and right slave limits. This position will place the right side of your helmet against the lower left side of the ejection seat headrest. Let the headrest support the weight of your helmet, and you will be able to turn very hard in relative comfort while watching the adversary. By rolling your helmet against the headrest and moving your eyes, you can follow the adversary through a wide range of flight paths. (See Figure 4.29, Head Positioning.)
Official book answer
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What you’re referring to is this:
Official book answer
Notice that the pilot in this picture is not wearing an HMCS helmet…trust me folks, this makes a difference…
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
Your head would be forced back, many times the high G is only done shortly, so the pilot can look at another angle/location quickly there after.
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It’s not so much a pinching feeling but more a long, sustained pressure on your upper body. It’s like a fat dude standing on your chest and just pressing you down in your seat and make your spine a few inches shorter.
At least that’s how it felt for me.I don’t think we were pulling any more than 5.5G when I took this shot. We had come up in a vertical maneuver (for the classic sky-rocketing shot) but we had slightly messed up our timing, so the F-16C pulled out of the climb into a loop and rolled away. Taking us slightly by surprise, so we ended up above him, trying to keep up in the D-model, pulling quite hard to keep near him. This was shot through the top of the canopy but all I did was keeping the shutter pressed (10 frames per second to the rescue). There was no skill behind it, I could not move my camera (Canon 1D with 24-105mm on it, a combined weight of 2,3 KG so it felt like something of 13 KG or something) even if wanted to try it. I couldn’t even more my arms for that matter. I can’t even imagine how anyone can actually do anything at 7+ Gs?
Great shot Tazzy.
Yeah I mis communicated I think being non-native English speaker here
By pinching I not really ment the pinching action like the short nip in the leg, but more translated from Dutch (Flemish) that it’s a pain sensation making you uncomfortable but not in real real pain, if you understand what I’m trying to say :). When I would have the blatters inflate as much as you actually get that feeling like when pulling higher G’s (I’ve experienced +6/-2 in acro with a Pitts Special), I don’t think it would be healthy because your not actually pulling them behind your computer. So I’m looking for a discomfort feeling, close to something real, but not dangerous. -
Notice that the pilot in this picture is not wearing an HMCS helmet…trust me folks, this makes a difference…
Indeed, pilots told me they already have a huge difference with NVG’s on, let a lone a full JHMCS.
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I recently recorded this dogfight with the ai and it made me realize how far removed sim fights are from the real thing. In this video you can see I pretty much sustained max g throughout the majority of the fight, even exceeding 11g in a roll at one point.
Obviously a true 1v1 guns fight these days would be…extremely rare. A high speed ACM environment with missiles is probably the extent of modern knife fights. But for the sake of argument, I’m wondering how long a real fighter pilot is expected sustain such high g maneuvering and still keep their head up.
Opinions? Facts?
4.33 finnaly got good G stress modelng. In the old model you could pull 60 sec 9G turn, which was insane. In original F4.0 was similar model to current BMS4 model. To me this was the one of the most long awaited upgrade of Falcon, the old model simply ruined the modeling of dogfigth…