Are tanks sitting ducks in real life.
-
Will this ever happen?
You can count on me. But not now…
MolnyFalcon v2.0 will be released soon with hardcore campaigns and OOB. You can check what is achiavable by manipulating DB and modeling values.To see when a long distance radar is seeing them though I guess thats where the portable sams would be for.
In a large scale conventional war literally always give warning and most of them will be false by these sysetems. Older tanks units cost was typically 1-3 M$. It has no sense to integrate for every tank and vehicle. If air defense have they can protect its “herd”. Otherwise on blue side in RL mostly ground based or other CAS would guide the strike AC, therefore RWR on tanks does not help too much.
BTW, if you check Russian AC even from '80s they had quite primitve RWR even on 4th generation jets comparing with sophisticatad RWR of teenager fighters.
-
I need to get this off my chest.Are tanks really that vulnerable to AtoG attacks?If I knew what I know from F4 I would never step foot in one knowing that there are planes that see you from distance/lock on to you and then your dead.There has to be something to get men to climb into the vehicles.Who would build these high expense machines to throw them out to the field thats basically a shooting range?And so I have a few more questions.:p
So I wonder,do tanks have RWR built in?
Do they have men standing around them looking for enemy aircraft launching on them?
Do tank columns in real life have more AAA,manpads and sams with them than we see in game.
Do they execute more tricks into luring targets in.Stuff like setting an advanced radar and waiting for enemy planes to kill.Then when the plane thinks its safe to get closer and use up close weapons the y turn on the other radars and manpads and the enemy is pretty much dead.
Do tanks ever hide behind buildings to keep enemy aircraft from being able to lockon?
Yes, Also fighter jets are sitting ducks in a modern conventional war.
-
molnibalage great stuff about MolnyFalcon v2.0**.**While I agree that RWR on every tank is overkill and the air defense should be enough,I still feel that its a lose lose situation for armor.I mean a Shilka or a sam site is defeatable easily from a distance,or so thats how lockon portrayed it.Any attack on a column meant getting visual on the air defenses and taking them out from afar.Then just going in with guns and dumb bombs to clean up.I would not wanna be a tanker in a war against a superior air force.
Paveway,I agree to a point….you control how much of a sitting duck you wanna become but armor really are just sitting around waiting.
-
Tanks don’t carry RWR (which is properly referred to as ESM or Electronic Support Measures), but there are specialized vehicles that do, and are completely passive. These however would most likely be positioned with battalion level assets and provide information at that level. Set several of these across an area and you can get efficient triangulation. These would even pick up RALT transmissions so there’s a reason you can turn it off at will with a switch. Once they know you’re there, they’d task longer range SAMS and tell them where to look, or even interceptors.
-
You need to remember that OSD was in the desert, add some hills with trees and it’s not that easy, yeh yeh IR and stuff but will your maverick navigate around the trees?
-
No.Remeber Desert storm… Iraqi tank commander said something like this :When I arrived in Kuwait I had 40 tanks.After air strikes I had 30.After 10 minutes of battle with M1A1s I had none.
Also remember Operation Allied force…Before KLA offensive effectivnes of NATO planes was extremly poor because of decentrailsed Serbian IADS and C3.You need ground forces.
IRL you dont fire 6 (in fact you carry only 2-4) agm65s per pass and you dont get down to 2000fts to drop CBUs etc.In “Vipers in the storm” play time was 30minutes and they would achive 3-7kills and in bms I can achive 10-20 alone. -
-
Does the highway of death mean anything.
-
Yes tanks with no air support or point air defences are sitting ducks. Facing such overwhelming forces guerrilla tactics are probably the only way to go…
-
It’s all part of the food chain. If there was a weapon delivery platform that could do it all they’d have deployed it along time ago.
While you’re thinking “oh look a nice fat tank” zooming about up in the air, the tank commander’s thinking “Oh look, a nice fat platoon”. While the normal infantryman can only say “Oh shit… it’s a <insert vehicle=”" here=“”>"</insert>
-
Well, I think it’s much easier to kill tanks in Falcon.
Now imagine, that all those forest textures are actual forests with 10m high trees. And in between them there’s a road with column of tanks driving. Your mav’s would burn half of the trees but the probability of kill is small. Right now forests in falcon are just textures, “bold as a knee”.
-
Yeap for Mav’s but lgb’s have better chance to nail it down. But on the otherhand if the forest is there nor radar nor tgp could lock the tank…
Unless u have ground Lansing or coordinates…
Also the terrain is rough so a high speed moving tank going in a ditch could avoid whatever…
But in cover up cases either u will have ground info or u wait for them to come out in the open and nail them… -
Problems IMO in bms are that most of pilots use “rambo” tactics (dropping down to low altiude etc.) while in gulf war min release alt. was 5000ft -but normally it was 10k+ ft.IRL there is no “DISCARD” option.Another problem is finding targets…with JSTARS deployed IRL you see bunch of radar contacts representing only moving targets(frendly,civilian,enemies), and in bms on the map I belive you can see actual units.There are no civilian units and all enemy units are in column…Tanks are much safer IRL but they completly depend on IADS.
-
Problems IMO in bms are that most of pilots use “rambo” tactics (dropping down to low altiude etc.) while in gulf war min release alt. was 5000ft -but normally it was 10k+ ft.IRL there is no “DISCARD” option.
Yea in a non SA-x environment we would also go for 5000ft. But with SA-x’s all over the place u hit the dirt… Till now for me the best tactic. So Rambo says: “Mud Cammo on”… LOL
-
Yeah BMS campaign tactics and strategy is also problematic…I remember that few years ago I played F4AF balkans campaign with manual ato…In first phase I destroyed all EWS radars, most of search radars(All flights were assigned with HARMs/agm130s/gbu15s-longer range), and then started SEAD(HARM and LGB only) …destroyed most of air defences and AAA.Serbian air force never posed a problem-and not even a single BLU107 was used in low level dangerous attacks-pointless when you are facing 12 mig29s.In the second phase I encountered very few SAMs and AAA.
When I let AI do the job in the same campaign same type of missions suddenly turned out very hard and dangerous.
I guess same goes for bms 4.32.
Anyway AI in falcon series is not properly judging what is more dangerous -aaa,sams or manpads/ground fire-Otherwise they woud never assign flight with blu107s against airfield defended only by AAA when you can fly at 24k ft(out of their range)and drop LGBs. -
now i am worried , my son is a loader in a tank
-
Modern tank versions are normally well protected and can take some beating. Depends what he is sitting in, and where he is. Professionals know what they are doing, but the role of the tank has changed.
-
Hammer1, where is your son? If he is in the U.S./western country’s tanks, he will be fine
-
Explosive reactive armor helps out, plating helps out, funny angles help out, … more modern tanks aren’t as easy to kill as the sim wants you to think. If WWI or II era, that’s a different story.
Hammer1 - ca as in CANADA, Central Africa Republic or CALIFORNIA? Keep positive energy flowing out, and do your best not to dwell on the bad. If your son is in a modern tank I’d worry more about the smell of the crew that’s driving in it for days on end. That can’t be pretty. He’s better protected than someone in the open if the rounds start comming down.
-Babite -
details of the M-1’s armor is classified
and for good reason
i have it on good authority that our tankers are… “well protected”
those guys are definitely in harm’s way - don’t misunderstand ---- but the M-1 has a lot of advantages on the battlefield
how many tanks have you heard about in iraq/afganistan? how many “other” vehicles
mm-hmm - thought so…
[[ oh wow… googled how many tanks have been destroyed in iraq - got this… [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_M1_Abrams
"Nearly all sources claim that no Abrams tank has ever been destroyed as a result of fire from an enemy tank, but some have certainly taken some damage which required extensive repair. "
heh! think the F-15C has a great combat record?? try the M-1!!
i think your son will be just fine senor hammer ]]