Possible bug AGM-65 and ships
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…if the AGM-65G is modeled true to life, it’s not really optimized for shooting ships - the AGM-65F is. Pretty sure the -65F is not in the USAF inventory, though.
And for the devs - there is heat in the wake of a ship in contrast to the surrounding water - so the seeker isn’t really “tracking waves” but it should track the wake, to an extent.
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…if the AGM-65G is modeled true to life, it’s not really optimized for shooting ships .
It is.
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As I figured…with the exception of not biting the ship’s wake. It should also bite on the exhaust plume or track dust from tanks and vehicles.
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The GOLF model is perfectly capable of targeting ships, it even has a special SHIP/LAND selector switch. Please read the entire Maverick section (page 701 and further):
http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/HAF-F16-34.pdfCan one of the dev’s weigh in and share if the observed behavior is designed (if so, why?) or a possible bug?
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I didn’t say it wasn’t capable, I said it’s not optimized for that target…and in RL it is NOT, the F seeker is - no matter what the button says; it aids, but it’s still not the same missile/seeker and the G and F don’t behave the same.
What is still missing in any case is how the seeker behaves regarding residual heat in the environment…that could stand some improvement. Other than that, the fact that MAVs have become harder to use instead of easier is a nice improvement…because it reflects RL. I still really wish we had LMAVs…because that’s really the MAV of choice in most cases.
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After some more testing it seems this bug is only applicable to the AGM-65 GOLF model. It happens both for moving and stationary ships.
Is the GOLF variant modeled diferently than the DELTA (with respect to ships)? Any idea what else might explain this behaviour? I’ve fired dozens of mavericks (DELTA’s and GOLF’s) under very controlled circumstances on moving and stationary ships. DELTA’s always hit, and a significant portion of the GOLF’s misses.
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Is the GOLF variant modeled diferently than the DELTA (with respect to ships)? Any idea what else might explain this behaviour? I’ve fired dozens of mavericks (DELTA’s and GOLF’s) under very controlled circumstances on moving and stationary ships. DELTA’s always hit, and a significant portion of the GOLF’s misses.
upload a video
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I still agree with you on this.
Kyros, are you not seeing this with targets other than ships, in regards to the G?
I haven’t done enough of it like that to say.perhaps I’ll run some tests against non-ship targets with the G to see.
Did ya’ll notice in my screenshot where it said ‘miss’?
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Follow up on a little testing with the AGM-65G:
Buildings–-100% hits
Moving ground targets—100%
Ships—50 to 75% or something around that.I didn’t see this in 4.33
My postulation: PK has been reduced for AGM-65G on a Ship.Like Stevie said, I guess it’d make it more realistic like this.
I’m going with this conclusion until someone explains it better.
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Moving ground targets should be something less than 100% too…but I’d suspect that this has something to do with not modeling residual/atmospheric heating in the environment. This would make the attack have to be more precise WRT aspect on the mover.
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Stevie, my sample size for moving ground targets, and buildings (for this recent spate of testing) was pretty small.
I felt I could make a conclusion, of sorts, anyway. I went from missing a lot of the ships to hitting everything else.
(weird thing is the ACMI showed visual hits on all the ones debriefing said were misses.)
I suppose (??) that’s one way to lower the PK, or it’s a side effect.I’ll do more as time permits.
thanks,
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Yeah, the ACMI thing is odd…and I wouldn’t have expected that. That one sounds like an actual bug.
Another thing to try with ground movers is to vary your attack - try head on, trailing, 90 degree abeam, and 45 degree lead and trailing attacks. See what the success rate is there…it should vary, but my guess based on what I’ve read is that it probably won’t. A tank should be about the worst case for throwing heat into the environment I should think…not so much with a light vehicle.
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Last week I’ve had same thought about that, fired 2 GOLF @OSAII , both hit but never detonated , ~8nm. They just disappeared on terminal./impact.
Lock and track were confirmed., … also, debrief said ‘Miss’ …Then I’ve did just a simple test with campaign save… about 1-2 of 4 will MISS. (25-50%)
My guess is, its not a bug … just low PK ? By all means , please, do test more/
There were 4 OSA’s . -2 were stationery , 2 were movingCheers
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We’re seeing the same behavior in the Balkans campaign for 4.34. AGM-65G Mavericks fired well within range 5-8nm on OSA II ships and the majority of them seem to disappear or have no effect whatsoever. No hits, no damage to the ships.
Instead we carry AGM-65Ds now - it takes about 2 Ds to sink an OSA II but at least these 100% track and hit.
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We’re seeing the same behavior in the Balkans campaign for 4.34. AGM-65G Mavericks fired well within range 5-8nm on OSA II ships and the majority of them seem to disappear or have no effect whatsoever. No hits, no damage to the ships.
Instead we carry AGM-65Ds now - it takes about 2 Ds to sink an OSA II but at least these 100% track and hit.
You guys sure that you have not accidentally set the missile for force correlation track ? Check if AREA is adjacent to OBS 7 instead of HOC/COH. AREA has problems
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Hi guys,
I have a similar issue with the AGM-65D.
The missile hits it’s target but doesen’t detonate (observed live in 3D). Happened both against Fan Song and Pat Hand so far.Either unexploded ordnance is modeled in BMS or this is a bug.
In one occasion there was a missile that hit a Pat Hand directly and simply disappeared without explosion.
This missile was launched at the very edge of it’s range and was therefore very slow on impact, but I launched another one later from closer range and it didn’t explode either, so low speed can’t be the issue.
However, I also over-G-ed my Mavericks a before, so if I can break the warhead/fuze on a Maverick by pulling too many Gs and this is modeled in BMS that would be impressive, but I guess that’s not the case.I haven’t seen this often enough to tell exactly when it will happen, but it only seems to happen on direct hits.
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Breaking weapons due to prelaunch manveuvering is modeled. If that includes Mavericks I don’t know.
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Breaking weapons due to prelaunch manveuvering is modeled. If that includes Mavericks I don’t know.
It is, but the missile does not launch. MAL is replaces RDY on the weapon status if the pickle button is pressed.