Landing advice from a rookie perspective. Don't listen to your Dad (Papi)
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quicksilver,
I understand. This hobby is expensive! My first hotas was the X 52, but after 3 years I was on my 3rd set, and I realized that upgrading to a quality hotas like a Warthog actually would be cost effective. Over time I keep upgrading my flight sim stuff, now I’m looking for an ICP, and in a year I hope to get a force mod. Its one reason why as a teacher I also do tutoring every chance I can get.Now there is a sale and swap forum, so you could possibly swap your wife or one of your kids for a good hotas.:D
Since my wife kicked me out after 6 weeks last summer, took my money, tried to ruin my career (twice) to cover what she was doing, and after delaying things for almost a year finally divorced me, the only thing I have to swap is my cat Braveheart! He is very good at hunting mice and killing cat treats!
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quicksilver,
I understand. This hobby is expensive! My first hotas was the X 52, but after 3 years I was on my 3rd set, and I realized that upgrading to a quality hotas like a Warthog actually would be cost effective. Over time I keep upgrading my flight sim stuff, now I’m looking for an ICP, and in a year I hope to get a force mod. Its one reason why as a teacher I also do tutoring every chance I can get.Now there is a sale and swap forum, so you could possibly swap your wife or one of your kids for a good hotas.:D
Since my wife kicked me out after 6 weeks last summer, took my money, tried to ruin my career (twice) to cover what she was doing, and after delaying things for almost a year finally divorced me, the only thing I have to swap is my cat Braveheart! He is very good at hunting mice and killing cat treats!
I got X 52 and fly one one short test mission with it. On second mission it doesn’t work anymore. Spend 10 hours calibrating, uninstalling and reinstalling it and then returned it for refund. Bought CH-products hotas and no problems after 2,5 years.
I’ve had saitek products before and they work like dream but now it’s logitech/saitek and they products are quite crap. I have had also couple logitech gaming laser mouses that also went broke in year of usage. Only very cheap mouses and keyboards from logitech seems to work years without problems. -
M79,
My first hotas, the X52, was bought for the space game X3 Terran conflict. As you said, they just don’t last. Now I use my Warthog Hotas for X4 Foundations, and its great. I have never uses Ch products. Would you recommend the CH hotas as a good stater set for people trying the hobby?Last night I was reading the 4th training mission on how to use the ILS. Very interesting, and lots to learn. I also continued reading the communication and navigation manual. I am very thankful for the glossary in the back that helps save me from acronym hell! I think the hardest part in learning about flight is all of the acronyms, but bit by bit I am learning. I really enjoy reading the manuals before going to bed, I always learn something new.
I read somewhere, I think in the original Falcon 4 manual, that F-16 pilots first learn to fly the Cessna, and then a training jet, before they learn the F-16. I was thinking of buying a flight simulator. Aerofly FS 2 Flight Simulator looks great and it works with Andre’s jetseat. I would just wait for a Steam Sale, but I am really tempted to buy it now. Would any of you recommend that simulator, or is there something better to learn to fly the Cessna and to learn the basics of flight?
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I recommend FSX. It’s good value and well tailored to the procedural (flight plans, radios, ATC) with a lot of teaching materials. And there’s a good chance of joining someone else for multiplayer either shared cockpit or traditional.
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Try FlightGear. It doesn’t look all that great visually, but the simulation is good. One nice thing about it, it’s absolutely free. Considering the sheer price of the commercial sims, and DLC costs on top of that, this is a huge deal. It’s also open-source, and the aircraft selection is quite nice, though if you want good flight model, good, working cockpit and good visuals at the same time, it becomes more limited. It comes with a Cessna, and you should be able to find a decent jet trainer, as well. Unfortunately, it doesn’t do AI traffic very well and ATC is nearly nonexistent unless you want to fly in multiplayer, where there’s a whole segment of the community dedicated to providing ATC.
I can definitely recommend CH. Good layout, very durable, wonderful control software. One nice thing is the ability to combine your controllers into a single virtual one, which allows you to fly with throttle and sometimes even pedals in older games (nothing like flying an X-wing with a full HOTAS ). I bought mine, used, several years ago, and aside from the microstick centering being a bit loose (not a problem if you set the deadzones right), I’ve never had problems with them. The throttle has no detents and only a single axis (not really a big problem), and the stick doesn’t have a paddle switch, but those aren’t really a problem, and since I ended up left with two free throttle buttons after mapping all the functions from a real Viper HOTAS, I mapped the paddle to one of those.
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Hi guys,
I did not read the whole thread (so apologies if it reverts a bit) but my squdronmate made a great video with (i think) very nice diagrams on how tot land the F-16.
It is in Dutch, but the diagrams are selfexplanatory i imagineI hope it helps all beginners tot master the landing safely
Edit: In my experience of you master your approach, the ILS becomes a lot easier to do
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It is in Dutch, but the diagrams are selfexplanatory i imagine
I hope it helps all beginners tot master the landing safely
Edit: In my experience of you master your approach, the ILS becomes a lot easier to do
Hello, dear mate.
You can swear well on both above. Even I got all. And its contents have been most useful for this not-quite-a newbie (well, let’s hope so at least) speaking.
Thanks for sharing it.
In my own opinion, you and your mate made a very good job for me, because I firmly believe that, when flying a plane, I’m always a student.With best regards.
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Snowman,
That video really helps. In it you have the Papi with the two white and two red circles, like it is suppose to be. I am definitely going to try to land following your video, because even though I can land every time, its not perfect and I just don’t feel comfortable yet. I know there is more than one way to do this, its just hard finding that way that is safe, consistent, and feels right.I’m 42, a private school teacher with a modest income (extra tutoring money has helped to pay for flight sim equipment), but one day, maybe when I retire, if I can pull it off, I now have the dream of owing a cessna or another basic plane. There is a small airport with cessnas just 5 minutes from my house (Lansing, IL). Its just a dream, but today I decided to make it one of my goals in life.
Btw the Navigation and Communication manual is a Godsend. As I read more and more of it, it just opens my eyes. Besides the glossary, I really like the pictures of the different types of flight formations. To think, Red Dog, that you and others wrote these manuals for free, my gosh, they are just amazing.
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Good to hear it. To correct you on a little point: the video is not made by me ( i would love to be able to create this kind of quality )
Extra info: keep in mind the F-16 landings are of a different technique compared to for example a cessna.
Enjoy!
Snowman
Edit: see the post of Dee-jay. The papi is not that important, but the glideslope is. If you aim for the area around the touchdownpoint, with the correct glideslope, you will get two white two red. If you aim for the threshhold you will get four (three) red. This in itself is not an issue.
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M79,
My first hotas, the X52, was bought for the space game X3 Terran conflict. As you said, they just don’t last. Now I use my Warthog Hotas for X4 Foundations, and its great. I have never uses Ch products. Would you recommend the CH hotas as a good stater set for people trying the hobby?Last night I was reading the 4th training mission on how to use the ILS. Very interesting, and lots to learn. I also continued reading the communication and navigation manual. I am very thankful for the glossary in the back that helps save me from acronym hell! I think the hardest part in learning about flight is all of the acronyms, but bit by bit I am learning. I really enjoy reading the manuals before going to bed, I always learn something new.
I read somewhere, I think in the original Falcon 4 manual, that F-16 pilots first learn to fly the Cessna, and then a training jet, before they learn the F-16. I was thinking of buying a flight simulator. Aerofly FS 2 Flight Simulator looks great and it works with Andre’s jetseat. I would just wait for a Steam Sale, but I am really tempted to buy it now. Would any of you recommend that simulator, or is there something better to learn to fly the Cessna and to learn the basics of flight?
If you already have warthog stick then I recommend to stay with thrustmaster. CH products old CH hangar is closed now and it’s harder to find answers to any problems that you might have with your hotas. Anyway CH products products are made for use and are very durable.
For practicing flying F16 or other aircraft I recommend just flying it more (no matter what AC you want to fly). You don’t have your life on line as simpilot. You can just jump on afterburner jet without playing with cessna cause you have more than nine lives.
This forum also have quite good links to videos that show how you should do things in air.
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I would say that learning to fly a Cessna is a good idea, if only because unlike the Viper, it doesn’t really do anything for you. Understanding the basics, how a conventional airplane acts without FLCS, as well as how to fly with normal instruments, can be helpful in understanding the F-16. Not to mention flying a Cessna is fun in its own way.
Yeah, if you have a Warthog, CH is just one notch below. I’d recommend it for a good starter set that you can keep if you either play old games or just don’t get into it as deeply as some, or just have limited budget. I don’t have any personal experience with Thrustmaster products (that is, CH works too darn well for me to justify the investment ), but it seems to be what most people here are using.
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I am currently doing training mission # 4 ILS approach, and for some reason I cannot get the localizer to appear on the HUD. I enter the ILS TACAN to 75X, the frequency to 110.3, the course to 356 and hit enter. ILS is on, and I change the EHSI to PLS/TCN.
So I must be missing something. Any ideas?
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Are you in NAV mastermode? (Bottom left in hud NAV)
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On center pedestal set to ILS/NAV or ILS/TCN ?
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I don’t think I was in nav master mode. I will check it next chance I can get. Thanks!
–—edit----
Yep, I confirmed that I was not in nav master mode. I was able to land using ILS! Thank you guys. -
It is my understanding that there is a bug that causes the tankers to turn too much, and as it is, air to air refueling is one of the hardest things for beginners to learn, even without the bug.
Is it recommended for a beginner to try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel?
Can training mission 5 be completed by veterans even with the bug?
I did try to refuel for about 15 or 20 minutes, not sure if I could have pulled it off even without the tanker turning often, but I wanted to at least try. For now, I’m going to move on to training mission 6, ILS in bad weather, but I was wondering if I should even come back to mission 5 before there is a patch.
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It is my understanding that there is a bug that causes the tankers to turn too much, and as it is, air to air refueling is one of the hardest things for beginners to learn, even without the bug.
Is it recommended for a beginner to try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel?
Can training mission 5 be completed by veterans even with the bug?
I did try to refuel for about 15 or 20 minutes, not sure if I could have pulled it off even without the tanker turning often, but I wanted to at least try. For now, I’m going to move on to training mission 6, ILS in bad weather, but I was wondering if I should even come back to mission 5 before there is a patch.
the skills you need to learn, like the tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t are unknown to non tac pilots, and the phraseology changes depending on who you talk to. I was trained by the danish air force, and I’m translating what I learned into the best english version. These are all based on hud sight pictures between the aircraft VI and the FPM and the hud center line. they are all variants of the same idea. people say you need to learn to fly formation, true, but more importantly you need to learn to fly perfectly level by hand.
The only way to do that is to learn those techniques. I would suggest you ask around, read aerial surveys from nato, and consume as much as you can, or ask a pilot.
very briefly, the FPM and the hud centerline 0horz can be used to maintain level flight. this is all technique, and as a sim pilot, and a newer player or a younger person you will be miss-educated and using gaming techniques if you rely on youtube or even some of the in software training provided across all sim software. Learning to dip and to don’t, to rock out the baby, and to slide is short hand brevity for many tight formation variants applied to refuel flight, and all this comes from mastery of old school ifr adis that look like ball globes or the hud tape.
if youre an animal, like some of the old phantom pilots they would use their hsi.
to begin, trim on speed for a refuel around 303ias just to practice by yourself and see if you can align the fpm perfectly with the hud zero line and now without exceeding a one degree offset of the wing tips of the fpm over the zero line, practice all your ranges of glide turns, offset your speed +10 and -10. practice getting back to the null point.
its all technique, but without proper foundations youll just be copying bad ones.
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There’s a bug? AAR is all relative motion. I could probably refuel at 60 AOB if I had to. I think everyone should try AAR but move on if it becomes frustrating. It’s not critical you do the TRNs in any particular order.
I gave it a try and I was cleared contact 2:15 after start, contact about 3:00, first turn 3:30, level 5:45, transfer complete 7:15. Wingman contact 7:40 or so. In general you should be able to start a stop watch crossing 10nm distant from tanker and walk away with a two-ship refueled in I think 10-15 minutes depending on how much fuel you’re getting.
Yes it’s hard but you will get used to it and you will do it upside down inside out at night in a hail storm where fueling isn’t even in the top ten worries on your mind. It’s never easy but it gets routine.
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So should beginners try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel, or should we wait for a fix for the bug that causes tankers to turn too much? Can training mission 5 be done?
“thereisnotime”, thank you for your help, but I had trouble finding information about those skills: tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t. Searching under: Aviation tick the tac, got me all kinds of stories about those tic tac shaped UFO’s that our pilots have witnessed! Rock the baby got me stories about how to keep babies calm on airplanes. Dip and don’t got me articles on rules for chewing tobacco on airplanes. Lol! I can kind of guess what those maneuvers are. I will practice keeping level and adjusting speed.
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So should beginners try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel, or should we wait for a fix for the bug that causes tankers to turn too much? Can training mission 5 be done?
“thereisnotime”, thank you for your help, but I had trouble finding information about those skills: tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t. Searching under: Aviation tick the tac, got me all kinds of stories about those tic tac shaped UFO’s that our pilots have witnessed! Rock the baby got me stories about how to keep babies calm on airplanes. Dip and don’t got me articles on rules for chewing tobacco on airplanes. Lol! I can kind of guess what those maneuvers are. I will practice keeping level and adjusting speed.
phrases to describe dealing with unwanted delta in different aspects at close range, like I said, real knowledge for various ways avoids digital and lives between leather and in dusty shelving.
Rock the baby, is similar to “knocking down” on a too fast approach, to deal with unwanted climb from increased throttle.you dip the wings alternatively in minute amounts, which will bleed that energy out, after you rock the baby you’ll need to
dip, or don’t
which is counter acting that wiggle out with a bit of throttle, or a bit of DONT throttle, which may need a bit oftick the tac
which is opposite rudder or elevator and keeping the Tick “fpm” on the “tacK” zero line, but to do that you might need toslide or slip
which is the same thing in the z axis, using the rudder.if youre fighting a basket or a boom or lights, you’re fighting the modernity of training just as much. same with watching youtube. the f16 is a glove, she wants to listen,learn to speak to her in the language she knows, and shell always listen.