Landing advice from a rookie perspective. Don't listen to your Dad (Papi)
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I am currently doing training mission # 4 ILS approach, and for some reason I cannot get the localizer to appear on the HUD. I enter the ILS TACAN to 75X, the frequency to 110.3, the course to 356 and hit enter. ILS is on, and I change the EHSI to PLS/TCN.
So I must be missing something. Any ideas?
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Are you in NAV mastermode? (Bottom left in hud NAV)
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On center pedestal set to ILS/NAV or ILS/TCN ?
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I don’t think I was in nav master mode. I will check it next chance I can get. Thanks!
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Yep, I confirmed that I was not in nav master mode. I was able to land using ILS! Thank you guys. -
It is my understanding that there is a bug that causes the tankers to turn too much, and as it is, air to air refueling is one of the hardest things for beginners to learn, even without the bug.
Is it recommended for a beginner to try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel?
Can training mission 5 be completed by veterans even with the bug?
I did try to refuel for about 15 or 20 minutes, not sure if I could have pulled it off even without the tanker turning often, but I wanted to at least try. For now, I’m going to move on to training mission 6, ILS in bad weather, but I was wondering if I should even come back to mission 5 before there is a patch.
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It is my understanding that there is a bug that causes the tankers to turn too much, and as it is, air to air refueling is one of the hardest things for beginners to learn, even without the bug.
Is it recommended for a beginner to try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel?
Can training mission 5 be completed by veterans even with the bug?
I did try to refuel for about 15 or 20 minutes, not sure if I could have pulled it off even without the tanker turning often, but I wanted to at least try. For now, I’m going to move on to training mission 6, ILS in bad weather, but I was wondering if I should even come back to mission 5 before there is a patch.
the skills you need to learn, like the tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t are unknown to non tac pilots, and the phraseology changes depending on who you talk to. I was trained by the danish air force, and I’m translating what I learned into the best english version. These are all based on hud sight pictures between the aircraft VI and the FPM and the hud center line. they are all variants of the same idea. people say you need to learn to fly formation, true, but more importantly you need to learn to fly perfectly level by hand.
The only way to do that is to learn those techniques. I would suggest you ask around, read aerial surveys from nato, and consume as much as you can, or ask a pilot.
very briefly, the FPM and the hud centerline 0horz can be used to maintain level flight. this is all technique, and as a sim pilot, and a newer player or a younger person you will be miss-educated and using gaming techniques if you rely on youtube or even some of the in software training provided across all sim software. Learning to dip and to don’t, to rock out the baby, and to slide is short hand brevity for many tight formation variants applied to refuel flight, and all this comes from mastery of old school ifr adis that look like ball globes or the hud tape.
if youre an animal, like some of the old phantom pilots they would use their hsi.
to begin, trim on speed for a refuel around 303ias just to practice by yourself and see if you can align the fpm perfectly with the hud zero line and now without exceeding a one degree offset of the wing tips of the fpm over the zero line, practice all your ranges of glide turns, offset your speed +10 and -10. practice getting back to the null point.
its all technique, but without proper foundations youll just be copying bad ones.
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There’s a bug? AAR is all relative motion. I could probably refuel at 60 AOB if I had to. I think everyone should try AAR but move on if it becomes frustrating. It’s not critical you do the TRNs in any particular order.
I gave it a try and I was cleared contact 2:15 after start, contact about 3:00, first turn 3:30, level 5:45, transfer complete 7:15. Wingman contact 7:40 or so. In general you should be able to start a stop watch crossing 10nm distant from tanker and walk away with a two-ship refueled in I think 10-15 minutes depending on how much fuel you’re getting.
Yes it’s hard but you will get used to it and you will do it upside down inside out at night in a hail storm where fueling isn’t even in the top ten worries on your mind. It’s never easy but it gets routine.
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So should beginners try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel, or should we wait for a fix for the bug that causes tankers to turn too much? Can training mission 5 be done?
“thereisnotime”, thank you for your help, but I had trouble finding information about those skills: tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t. Searching under: Aviation tick the tac, got me all kinds of stories about those tic tac shaped UFO’s that our pilots have witnessed! Rock the baby got me stories about how to keep babies calm on airplanes. Dip and don’t got me articles on rules for chewing tobacco on airplanes. Lol! I can kind of guess what those maneuvers are. I will practice keeping level and adjusting speed.
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So should beginners try to complete training mission 5, Air to Air refuel, or should we wait for a fix for the bug that causes tankers to turn too much? Can training mission 5 be done?
“thereisnotime”, thank you for your help, but I had trouble finding information about those skills: tick the tac, rock the baby, and dip and don’t. Searching under: Aviation tick the tac, got me all kinds of stories about those tic tac shaped UFO’s that our pilots have witnessed! Rock the baby got me stories about how to keep babies calm on airplanes. Dip and don’t got me articles on rules for chewing tobacco on airplanes. Lol! I can kind of guess what those maneuvers are. I will practice keeping level and adjusting speed.
phrases to describe dealing with unwanted delta in different aspects at close range, like I said, real knowledge for various ways avoids digital and lives between leather and in dusty shelving.
Rock the baby, is similar to “knocking down” on a too fast approach, to deal with unwanted climb from increased throttle.you dip the wings alternatively in minute amounts, which will bleed that energy out, after you rock the baby you’ll need to
dip, or don’t
which is counter acting that wiggle out with a bit of throttle, or a bit of DONT throttle, which may need a bit oftick the tac
which is opposite rudder or elevator and keeping the Tick “fpm” on the “tacK” zero line, but to do that you might need toslide or slip
which is the same thing in the z axis, using the rudder.if youre fighting a basket or a boom or lights, you’re fighting the modernity of training just as much. same with watching youtube. the f16 is a glove, she wants to listen,learn to speak to her in the language she knows, and shell always listen.
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the most important thing to remember is that flight is a balance of forces, push and pull, demand and return, input and correction.
you need a loose grip, on a tight ship, if that makes sense.
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I will do my best to work on all of those techniques. Thank you “thereisnotime” for taking the time to explain all of those maneuvers.
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I would say that learning to fly a Cessna is a good idea, if only because unlike the Viper, it doesn’t really do anything for you. Understanding the basics, how a conventional airplane acts without FLCS, as well as how to fly with normal instruments, can be helpful in understanding the F-16. Not to mention flying a Cessna is fun in its own way.
Yeah, if you have a Warthog, CH is just one notch below. I’d recommend it for a good starter set that you can keep if you either play old games or just don’t get into it as deeply as some, or just have limited budget. I don’t have any personal experience with Thrustmaster products (that is, CH works too darn well for me to justify the investment ), but it seems to be what most people here are using.
Even an old 150 does quite a lot for you, just not by means of a FBW computer system. Aircraft designers have learned a lot since the early days of aviation.
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Yes, but it’s just a matter of designing your aircraft right. In a Cessna, you’re still physically moving control surfaces that are connected to the stick and the trimmer via cables. Manual flaps, too, not that it needs them most of the time. Engine electronics are minimal (though admittedly, in most models it’s a piston engine, and not very relevant to flying jets). You can get a fancy Cessna with an autopilot built in and an aftermarket MFD, or even a glass cockpit one, but in the basic models the most advanced avionics are VOR/ILS receivers. Cessna or Piper Cub aren’t easier to fly than a Sopwitch Camel because they do anything more for you, but because they’re inherently well behaved in terms of aerodynamics, and the Camel isn’t.
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Well, it’s “just” a pretty big deal. The Camel had pretty basic ailerons, while the differential frise ailerons on the Cessna make life easy, even without FBW. You are still physically moving control surfaces, but those control surfaces don’t move the way you think they would. Not like on a Camel or parasol or similar.
Which Cessnas have manual flaps? All the ones I’ve flown have been electric.
The aerodynamics are anything but inherent- it’s not just the shape of the plane, it really isn’t.
Totally agree that learning to fly a conventionally controlled aircraft first would give most Falcon pilots a deeper understanding of aviation, but saying it’s because the Cessna doesn’t do anything for you is just wrong…
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I flew a C172A that had manual flaps. Great big handle on the floor like a parking brake that you would have to heave up in various stages. Lots of heft required for 40deg flaps but she sure did stop quick and nose down pitch gave you a great view of the approach. We could even perform ok turns with control fixed by opening the pilot and copilot doors.
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Yeah, the newer ones have electric flaps that save you some effort wrangling a great big lever, but it wasn’t always like this. However, my point was really that they are not automatic, as in a Viper. You have to deploy them by yourself, and watch your airspeed as you do so. In a sim, you don’t really feel the difference, anyway, unless you make yourself a physical lever with force feedback.
Admittedly, I kind of take differential Frise airlerons for granted, but then, you have to go to pre-WWII planes to find one that wouldn’t have things of that sort. Even the humble Piper Cub has Frise airlerons, and that’s about as basic as you can get without getting into historic aviation. Still, the only thing they do is make actual flying easier. This is important, but it doesn’t really mean there’s anything you can stop worrying about compared to, say, a Tiger Moth. Differential airlerons don’t eliminate adverse yaw, it’s still there, just more manageable.