Can't launch Radar guided missiles in Mig-29A and Mirage 2000-C
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I tried searching for a solution but could not find one.
I’m playing the Israel theater. I first tried to launch an AA-10 from a Mig-29A without any radar lock but it did not happen. Next I tried a Mirage 2000 with Mica EM again without radar lock but the marker in the middle (I’ve forgotten the name. I think it’s called the tadpole) kept flashing even though I held down the pickle button for around 5 seconds. However, IR missiles go off the rail almost immediately.
1. Is this because of no radar lock? The Master Arm was on in both cases.
2. Is this unique to all radar guided missiles? -
…without any radar lock…
You have to have a good radar lock to launch a radar guided air to air missile. In case of the AA10 you even have to go hard lock (STT) (TMS UP twice) In BMS semi-active radar homers are launched much like the heaters - as you said - almost instantaneously, after pickle button is pressed.
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This isn’t entirely accurate. You can mad-dog (fire without radar lock) a FOX-3, but you must be in bore to do so. Additionally, take caution in generalizing the AA-10 as only SARH as the B and D models are both IR.
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thankyou both.
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This isn’t entirely accurate. You can mad-dog (fire without radar lock) a FOX-3, but you must be in bore to do so. Additionally, take caution in generalizing the AA-10 as only SARH as the B and D models are both IR.
AA-10 (R-27) is SARH so in case you launch with BORE you simply waste the missile.
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This isn’t entirely accurate. You can mad-dog (fire without radar lock) a FOX-3, but you must be in bore to do so.
False! What do you expect out of the SARH if you launch it ‘Maddog’? As molni said, R-27 witch the OP mentioned is a SARH (Semi Active Radar Homing) meaning that the missile detects LAUNCHER PLATFORM’S RADIATION BOUNCING BACK FROM THE TARGET, so basically if you don’t radiate (guide) your missile’s going to go dumb, or maybe you’re talking about some kind of ‘lock after launch’?
…Mica EM…
Also noticed that the OP is talking about the Mica EM which is an ARH, meaning most likely that in BMS you can ‘Maddog’ it
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@mookar:
Also noticed that the OP is talking about the Mica EM which is an ARH, meaning most likely that in BMS you can ‘Maddog’ it
Not without some form of target indication and direction you can’t …. The OP specifically stated that he didn’t lock the target at all.
Fire an ARH missile without some form of target indication to set its inertial guidance to and it’ll perform exactly the same as an SARH except it’ll have the added bonus that if it happens to detect something in front of it, it’ll start to home. Chances are that if it hasn’t started to home within a few seconds of coming of the rail it won’t, unless the “target” happens to be some place on a ballistic arc from the firing a/c.
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You can Mad dog a radar missile, Aim-7, Aim-120, R-27, R-77, Mica etc (in Bore) doesn’t mean it will hit any thing except the ground & nobody said it would… And the OP was answered correctly in the first few posts, the rest will only confuse the mater.
Yes SARH has no chance, but a AR has some chance for its terminal seeker to attach itself to a target, friendly or foe.
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@mookar:
False! What do you expect out of the SARH if you launch it ‘Maddog’? As molni said, R-27 witch the OP mentioned is a SARH (Semi Active Radar Homing) meaning that the missile detects LAUNCHER PLATFORM’S RADIATION BOUNCING BACK FROM THE TARGET, so basically if you don’t radiate (guide) your missile’s going to go dumb, or maybe you’re talking about some kind of ‘lock after launch’?
C’mon, I said FOX-3. Not AA-10, not SARH, not FOX-1. FOX-3. I said this in direct response to “You have to have a good radar lock to launch a radar guided air to air missile” which by itself is not entirely accurate as the OP did question ARH missiles as well.
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thanks everybody. Just needed to see why the missiles were not coming off the rail. Now that’s been settled and I’ve tried it in the game as well, though not in the bore sight mode.
Another question; why is it that in slave mode the missiles won’t launch? Is it something to do with realism or that the BMS team don’t want us to waste our radar guided missiles?
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@mookar:
False! What do you expect out of the SARH if you launch it ‘Maddog’? As molni said, R-27 witch the OP mentioned is a SARH (Semi Active Radar Homing) meaning that the missile detects LAUNCHER PLATFORM’S RADIATION BOUNCING BACK FROM THE TARGET, so basically if you don’t radiate (guide) your missile’s going to go dumb, or maybe you’re talking about some kind of ‘lock after launch’?
Also noticed that the OP is talking about the Mica EM which is an ARH, meaning most likely that in BMS you can ‘Maddog’ it
No, the R-27 is a family of missiles. Without specifying exactly which version you’re speaking of, “R-27” means nothing other than either SARH or IR (in the world of Falcon).
R-27R is SARH
R-27ER is also SARH
R-27T is IR
R-27ET is also IR -
thanks everybody. Just needed to see why the missiles were not coming off the rail. Now that’s been settled and I’ve tried it in the game as well, though not in the bore sight mode.
Another question; why is it that in slave mode the missiles won’t launch? Is it something to do with realism or that the BMS team don’t want us to waste our radar guided missiles?
The Short answer is yes, realism. Waste or even shoot down a friendly or neutral air-frame will get you in a lot of hot water, and i’m not talking about a spar full of wet nurses.
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Fire an ARH missile without some form of target indication to set its inertial guidance to and it’ll perform exactly the same as an SARH except it’ll have the added bonus that if it happens to detect something in front of it, it’ll start to home.
Isn’t that ‘maddog’ in a nutshell?
R-27 is a family of missiles.
The OP said that he was launching IRs no problem, that’s why I talked about SARHs
What’s interesting though - is there a capability of the RL SARH (R-27 or other) to lock on after launch and if yes, is it replicated in BMS? -
BTW, there is even ARH (active-radar-homing) version of R-27 in realworld (missing in simulator) - the R-27EA with range 130km+
also Chinese equped their R-27 with R-77 ARH seeker according wiki
@mookar:What’s interesting though - is there a capability of the RL SARH (R-27 or other) to lock on after launch and if yes, is it replicated in BMS?
I think advanced versions of realword R-27 have LOAL capability (both IR and RL). I doubt an old basic Alamo-A (R27R) version has this ability.
On the other hand from the wiki:
R-27R and ER variants can be used in any meteorological conditions. Launch can made at less than 5 g overload and less 50 deg/s roll rate.[3] It is allowed to redesignate targets during flight, or sharing target illumination with other aircraft.
-perhaps it depends on launching platform
IR version LOAL:
R-27T and ET variants can be used out of cloudiness, at least 15 degrees away from the bearing of sun, and 4 degrees away from the bearing of moon and ground based head-contrasting conditions. In cases of maximum head-on range launches where lock-command cannot be utilised, missile can be fired in PPS: In this mode, missile will fly straight until achieves target lock. As missile lacks capability of maneuvering before lock, aircraft itself must maneuver so that missile will be pointed to no more than 15 degrees bearing of the target for confident capture by the IR seeker after launch. Equalising altitude is recommended but not required.[4] On combat operations section of the Su-27 manual, this mode of usage is especially recommended for head-on usage for passive attacks at targets with 0 degrees approach angle (i.e. another fighter moving to intercept), leaving target unalerted to incoming missile.[5] Launch can be made at 0 to 7 g, but limited to 6 g if roll induced slip is more than 2x diameter of the ball
I think IR LOAL is not possible in BMS ATM.
SARH loal is impossible too.
I think it is even impossible to make support aircraft LOAL with ARH in BMS. The only way to LOAL is via active ARH seeker using maddog launch IMO. -
BTW, there is even ARH (active-radar-homing) version of R-27 in realworld (missing in simulator) - the R-27EA with range 130km+
also Chinese equped their R-27 with R-77 ARH seeker according wikiI think advanced versions of realword R-27 have LOAL capability (both IR and RL). I doubt an old basic Alamo-A (R27R) version has this ability.
On the other hand from the wiki:
-perhaps it depends on launching platform
IR version LOAL:
I think IR LOAL is not possible in BMS ATM.
SARH loal is impossible too.
I think it is even impossible to make support aircraft LOAL with ARH in BMS. The only way to LOAL is via active ARH seeker using maddog launch IMO.Thanks for the input, Lukas.