Did the f-16 carry th e aim-7 in the gulf war?
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Iraqi F-16s are still armed with Aim-7. Vintage.
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Does anyone know if the f-16 carried the aim-7 during the gulf war? we’re tweaking the Kuwait campaign to be a bit more realistic and starting a campaign. I’ve read some references saying it was carried, vaguely, but my overwhelming knowledge is that they simply carried AIM-9s.
Nope. Only the F-16 ADF was AIM-7 capable and they never left USA as I know. Most of airframes were completed 1990 and sent them to AMARG. Some of these airframes were offered in Hungary in the '90s.
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The F-16 probably carried de AIM-7 since F-15 at that time score multiple kills with the AIM-7. But back in 1992 the F-16 was already carrying the AIM-120 and score its first AA kill in the Gulf War.
So to sum up. The viper at that time carried the AIM-9 , AIM-7, and the AIM-120 (early versions)
This is simply wrong. The first AIM-120 were carried by F-15s just after ODS during maintaining the NO FLY ZONE. Regardless this first AIM-120 kill was achieved by F-16.
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This is simply wrong. The first AIM-120 were carried by F-15s just after ODS during maintaining the NO FLY ZONE. Regardless this first AIM-120 kill was achieved by F-16.
What’s wrong with my post?
I’m not saying nothing about the AIM-120 on the eagle. I’m just saying that the eagle at that time carried also the AIM-7.
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What’s wrong with my post?
I’m not saying nothing about the AIM-120 on the eagle. I’m just saying that the eagle at that time carried also the AIM-7.
Was not ‘also’. In USAF only F-15 (and older F-4s) could carry AIM-7 and US Navy F/A-18. F-16 could not.
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I always thaught only ANG F-16s were able to carry Sparow.
That is from Wikipedia isn’t it? I question some of those Guard units were there.
Only aware of 2 ANG units going out there (SCANG and NYANG) ……both used Big tail Block 10s.
That list for example has 159th TFS (FANG) which did operate ADFs at one point…but no mention of any deployment in their various history’s.
The 163rd apparently didn’t receive F-16s till Oct 1991 http://www.f-16.net/units_article24.html - again no history
174th A-7Ds to Block 30s end 1991 and no history
182th No history of DS deployment
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ANG Sparows on F-16 is just general knowledge I have for decades.
Yep, squadron list is from wiki. It can be wrong.
You know zilion times more about F-16 for sure, I am not arguing.Nice article about ADF (270 airframes February 1989-1992)
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article14.htmlI can just suggest campaign wise. If Krause wants them, he can add some Sparrows to F-16A stockpile. But it is perhaps better to link all F-16s to fighter-bomber role (historic accuracy) and add just one F-16 squadron with SEAD (rest for F-4). But for game purpose Sparows and Shrikes/ Harms would be cool….?
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No F-16’s deployed to Desert Storm were carrying the AIM-7. These were all AIM-9 only. Indeed only the ADF version at the time was able to carry the Sparrow and none of these units deployed to Desert Storm.
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As someone who has played the campaign a lot and loves the theatre, I say just remove AMRAAM all together for a ODS campaign. The F-16 operated Air to Ground and it should be kept doing that in the campaign
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I agree removing Amraams is essential and it has solely already huge impact on gemeplay.
On the other hand…. I guess removing ARHs do not make F-16 pure AG. If it is still multirole (all default F16 flags, settings, AI rules), ATO will generate CAPs and SWEEPS with heaters (just like with MiG-21s, F-5s etc.)
This is limit of simulation and perhaps not so easy to finetune. When F-16 drops her MK-84, it is true beast…and guys inside are Viper drivers, they should be agressive
But there is some discipline since F3.0 times. ATO generated AG sorties used to have the main waypoint no. 3 (it was Bomb+“target”, CAS, S&D, Interdiction, SEAD) and other waypoints were ESCORT (besides takeoff+land). These flights were nice, patient and calm, did not attack AN-24s etc. But they were often shoot from behind by agressive defenders during long missions, especialy right before final landing
So I always changed my own hand tweaked packages to CAP in turning points to be more active, and it made big difference.Ok, F4 especialy BMS is different beast, but I had often similar experience (AG flights calmly following waypoints + some lazy dodging when under fire)…
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So apparently the ANG F-16 did carry Sparrows but did not partake Desert Storm, all the sparrow shots were done by F-15. I guess my source should be pretty much reliable
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So apparently the ANG F-16 did carry Sparrows but did not partake Desert Storm, all the sparrow shots were done by F-15. I guess my source should be pretty much reliable
Except one AIM-7 kill.
https://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/DATE CALLSIGN UNIT CREW AIRCRAFT SERIAL TARGET ORDNANCE
17 Jan 1991 QUICKSAND 62 VFA-81 Nick “Mongo” Mongillo F/A-18C 163502 F-7B Fishbed AIM-7Maybe F-14s launched AIM-7 but I never heard about such thing.
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When F-16 drops her MK-84, it is true beast….and guys inside are Viper drivers, they should be agressive
The guys inside all got lengthy briefings about engaging only where necessary for self defence, and to not take any undue risks. One guy got sent home for doing a strafing run against a ground target, under that instruction.
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So apparently the ANG F-16 did carry Sparrows but did not partake Desert Storm, all the sparrow shots were done by F-15. I guess my source should be pretty much reliable
Yes, that is correct. The only Guard F-16 units deployed were the NY and SC ANG and they didn’t fly the ADF. F-16’s were also used in A-G roles. A-A was done by the F-15C’s. F-16’s would only do A-A if they needed to defend themselves, which didn’t happen. Although I think one or two F-16’s did actually squeeze off an AIM-9 by accident.
Not sure about the F-14 and Sparrow. In Desert Storm the F-14 only had one kill against a helicopter. And I think that one was shot down by an AIM-9. So I don’t think the F-14 shot a Sparrow in Desert Storm. They did shoot them against the Libyan Migs in the 80’s.
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In fact theres a warning about that specifically in the manual, because of those accidental AIM-9 releases!
The warning being, pickle and hold to ensure you get a valid release, suggested technique of nose through the horizon before releasing the pickle, and ensure pickle is released before changing mastermode, because changing into A-A mastermode with the pickle still held will result in AIM-9 release.
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The only GW A-A F-16 incident I have seen IIRC was on the 19th Jan during a large raid that mostly went wrong and the F-4G Weasels and F-15Cs had already left the area. It was mentioned in GWAPs Vol 2 and in more detail in AirForces Monthly (June 1992):
__Unknown to Maj Tullia, Tico was hit by an SA·3. He had an uncorrelated missile launch on his radar warning receiver (RWR), and as he turned, he visually acquired the missile guiding on his aircraft from below. He timed his missile break turn, the missile overshot his aircraft and detonated behind him. Unfortunately, the miss distance was not sufficient to guarantee the safety of his aircraft, and Tico observed large, peeled-back holes on the surface of the jet with fuel, oil, and hydraulic fluid forming a smoke trail behind him.
While Tico was egressing, all the warning lights in his cockpit had illuminated, and he had no indication of airspeed, heading, or altitude. Fortunately, Capt. Bruce Crutch Cox was nearby, and the two of them formed a Flight as they headed south. As the two were egressing, Crutch received some very unusual radar warning indications. About that time the AWACS called bandits airborne and heading south out of Baghdad. The bandits in this case were MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters. Crutch pitched back to look at the source of the threat warning with his radar and saw that he was flying line abreast with one of the MiGs. As he turned into the MiG and locked onto it with his radar, it turned and ran. Since Crutch didn’t have the fuel to chase him, he turned his attention back to helping Tico.__
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In fact theres a warning about that specifically in the manual, because of those accidental AIM-9 releases!
The warning being, pickle and hold to ensure you get a valid release, suggested technique of nose through the horizon before releasing the pickle, and ensure pickle is released before changing mastermode, because changing into A-A mastermode with the pickle still held will result in AIM-9 release.
IIRC, this was in the Vipers in the Storm book.
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I believe there is mention of it there? Excellent book, its been too long since Ive read it.
The warning in the -34 doesnt mention the origin, but given that the accidental AIM-9 fires are from desert storm, it makes sense.
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Apparently Bahrain’s block 40s might have been the only Vipers to carry Aim-7 in the gulf war.
Aim-7f was sold to the country by 1988
AIM-7 was qualified on the F-16 for FMS in late 1989
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they wanted Aim-7 from the start
They definitely did use Aim-7 at some point it’s just pinning down when
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@frixon28 If you want that realism then you should consider the realism of so many other flights attacking baathi iraqi at that time. Many of them were deployed from incirlik as well as europe. But we are currently not getting that in the theater. To offset that I use ammrams for this theater.