Tailwind landing
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Dear all,
I landed with situation of strong tail wind ~20knots.
I heard that the tail wind landing requires much longer landing distance than the head wind situation.
In the following link, it explains " for operation with tailwinds up to 10 knots, increase distances by 10% for each 2 knots. "
https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/maneuvers/why-landing-with-a-tailwind-can-increase-your-risk-of-a-landing-accident/
I tested but in head and tail wind situation, the landing distances are slightly longer on tail wind situation.
Compared to the civil plane, is the military planes less affected to tail wind?
Thanks, -
The % effect of tailwind on your landing roll isn’t uniform across all aircraft. It’s significance varies mostly on the touchdown speed of the aircraft. If you imagine a Carbon Cub which can land at say 30 knots, landing in a 10knot tail wind, it’s touching down with 25% more ground speed (40kn) than it would be in still air. But because kinetic energy goes up by square with velocity it means that it’s actually touching down with almost double the energy that it needs to somehow dissipate, through either wheel brakes or aerodynamic drag.
This seems unintuitive but remember that if you double the speed of object it has 4x as much kinetic energy.
The faster your landing speed the less that additional ground speed from tailwind adds to the total amount of energy you need to dissipate to get stopped. With the difference in total energy between 140knots and 150knots being around 15% instead of an extra 75% from the 30-40knot example above.
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Compared to the civil plane, is the military planes less affected to tail wind?
Yes. As a rules of thumb, acceptable limit is usually 10kts tailwind whatever the LDA.
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Yes. As a rules of thumb, acceptable limit is usually 10kts tailwind whatever the LDA.
Not exactly…
A330 as civilian is 10kts tailwind, but as A330 MTTR is different? No.
A320/321Neo as a limit of 15kts tailwind for instance. It only depends on the aircraft. Although as Dee-Jay pointed 10kts tailwind is the round number to remember, almost every plane I’ve flown was 10kts, since the TB-30, through the A-Jet, till the Airbuses.
@Dee-Jay, were you in CGN back in 2002/3? I was there on several exchanges… with Coca/Wroby/Yuri. -
I know Kunsan prefers to operate 36, to the point of accepting tailwinds to a certain degree. I forget whether its a 10 knot or 15 knot tailwind component, before they switch to 18?
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@MRO:
Not exactly…
A330 as civilian is 10kts tailwind, but as A330 MTTR is different? No.
A320/321Neo as a limit of 15kts tailwind for instance. It only depends on the aircraft.That why I said “usually”. … can be different of course.
were you in CGN back in 2002/3? I was there on several exchanges… with Coca/Wroby/Yuri.
Yup.
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That why I said “usually”. … can be different of course.
Yup.
Miss those days, flying a “little bit low” over Fort Boyard!!
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I know Kunsan prefers to operate 36, to the point of accepting tailwinds to a certain degree. I forget whether its a 10 knot or 15 knot tailwind component, before they switch to 18?
Usually, ATC’s allow up to 5, max 10 tailwinds. I don’t remember one which allow more than 10.
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I know Kunsan prefers to operate 36, to the point of accepting tailwinds to a certain degree. I forget whether its a 10 knot or 15 knot tailwind component, before they switch to 18?
Would be nice if BMS ATC would operates a bit more tolerances on that aspect. I’ve seen weird situation with active runway changing because of a full cross situation and the wind slightly shifting from one side to the other. It created havoc on airport operations but happens in real ops as well Anyway What we have is already excellent. There is always room for more improvement
It’s easily avoided in BMS, but some instances using real weather created the above …
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@Red:
Would be nice if BMS ATC would operates a bit more tolerances on that aspect. I’ve seen weird situation with active runway changing because of a full cross situation and the wind slightly shifting from one side to the other. It created havoc on airport operations but happens in real ops as well Anyway What we have is already excellent. There is always room for more improvement
It’s easily avoided in BMS, but some instances using real weather created the above …
What would be your idea?
Currently, if I am not wrong, runway switches when head component goes above 10Kts tail.
What the logic should be, and how it would be dealt IRL? (keep in mind we have to deal with no brain robots … so all cases has to be taken in account and coded)What I think about:
Keeping the same runway active whatever the tails wind as long as we have a/c in the queue?
Closing the Airport and make flight diverting awaiting for less wind/or more established direction … ? , including departures … should they wait? Mission cancel? … should we cheat on the weather and prevent wind change during departing and recovery ops?I do not know what could be done (?) … and if it is possible (it could not be possible without beaking all the queue or delaying too much a/c on departure / recovery => Push time, remaining fuel …)
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What is done in reality is that criteria for switching runway A to runway B and criteria for switching runway B to runway A aren’t the same. There is overlap so minor fluctuations don’t have the selection rapidly change. Plus they don’t sample the weather too often.
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The decision to switch runways should actually be made on crosswind component, and have nothing to do with any tailwind. Once the crosswind component goes out of limits then the runway should be switched (or the PIC will divert) - depending on the field that may be as simple as swapping ends, or if there are more choices available it may be another runway entirely. In my experience if the field cannot provide a runway with the crosswind component within in limits for the aircraft operating at that field, the field will close. Forex - at the field I operate from we have surface wind limits because we had a guy killed post ejection by being drug across the ground on his parachute…hit his head on a rock and broke his neck. When the winds are up this high we close the field to departure and recover home-based jets only, but we also have three (six…) runways available to accommodate.
Only caveat to the above is how long the runway is - the runway available and being able to stop before the end is the real factor (and this also includes any arresting gear engagement considerations at both ends), outside of book limits…and that I’m speaking from a Navy perspective as far as fighters go. USN guys don’t land downwind…because you can turn the ship. Now you’ve got me wanting to check the book…as I’ve never even heard of such being considered in Navy ops I’ve observed.
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… IIRC (really not sure about it) in-game, if Xwind > 25-30Kts, airfield is closed.
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That certainly sounds reasonable, Dee-Jay…I’ve personally made a parachute landing with surface winds in excess of 40 Kts and believe me…it is NOT a “pleasant” experience.
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That certainly sounds reasonable, Dee-Jay…I’ve personally made a parachute landing with surface winds in excess of 40 Kts and believe me…it is NOT a “pleasant” experience.
Peacetime rules here, if Wv>35kts => no flight.