F16V (Block 70)
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Will the F16V (Block 70) be introduced into BMS in the near future?
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The F16V is the latest Viper out there, therefore classified
Low chances to see replica of it in BMS until we have enough knowledge in minimum danger -
Perhaps a bit overstated
With Yame64 and Helios we are already simulating it.
The are already homebuilt cockpits with a CPD working.
I use yame and it is awesome, with a bit more development and debugging it would be perfect.Idealy I would prefer to have a CPD integrated in BMS, nothing classified there.
A moving map with integrated flight plan, a fuel management page and what not, it is so incredible awesome. -
I still do no get it the love for more and more advanced F-16s. I would choose any day the Block 1-15 than a Block 70.
The F-16V is more than just new cockpit. It has AESA radar. Which currently can’t simulate the BMS as I know.
And the towed decoy, the possible MAWS for some countries, etc.Comparing to this the F-16A just a new pit. I guess mimic the very old display which was not MFD is far easier because in needs only some characters to “mimic” and F-16A does not have any of the features which would need tons of work to model them.
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Perhaps a bit overstated
Idealy I would prefer to have a CPD integrated in BMS, nothing classified there.
A moving map with integrated flight plan, a fuel management page and what not, it is so incredible awesome.Indeed, the CPD is in use in some older ANG block30. So it’s VERY overstated.
that said, the block70 is not only about CPD. But that’s what ppl think about basically as it’s probably the most visible cockpit difference. There is probably much more internally.
But after all, our block 50/52 doesn’t have link 16 either. So the “classified” argument is IMHO just a huge wall to hide behindI think that if we want to promote the CPD, we should stop thinking it’s a unique feature of a block 60 or 70 - We need to concentrate on these block 30 ANG F-16 and find someone able to dedicate a new pit to it. IMHO that’s the biggest challenge as as far as I know a dedicated F-16 cockpit artist is missing, and has been missed for quite a long time in this community. IMHO
The features of the CPD should they be implemented one day are quite easy to find. -
+1.
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I still do no get it the love for more and more advanced F-16s. I would choose any day the Block 1-15 than a Block 70.
Perhaps because some folks want to simulate modern day fighter piloting rather than fighter piloting in the 80’s…
To me the old F-16A’s were awesome, but also kind of yesterday’s news, so not really of interest anymore for me to fly. But to each his own.I agree with red dog that it would be nice if the block 30 would get some love and an updated cockpit with the cpd and other upgrades that the guard Vipers got.
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ANG Block 42 got the Center pedestal as well. South Carolina ANG are supposed to get it too.
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I don’t think think the issue is just about trying to replicate the block 70.
If BMS were to chase the most up to date F16s and then the other aircraft and then the ships and then the missile systems etc. that would inevitably be required to go with them, we would increasingly have to rely on guesswork, be drawn away from replication and more into an arcade type sim. Despite all the amazing efforts the team has made over two decades, we’re still some way off totally accurate replicas of the blocks we have, not to mention the accompanying land, sea and air weapon systems.
Personally I would prefer to see BMS focus, at least for the next 3 to 4 Falcon years, on refining what we have- and off course things like graphics.
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I don’t think that the F16 block70 is so big deal. Most of the upgrade are under the hood, so there don’t have to change so much things to mock like the block 70. The biggest change is in the cockpit, but the national guard also use almost the same configuration the CDP. So if somebody make a good 3d cockpit with 3 MFD, then we will have block 30/40/70 at the same time. and there will be a good opportunity, to use these set up for another 4+gen aircraft which also have 3 MFD.
The CDP version has only one different that it show the exist things on display not in gauges, so there is only graphics and symbolic changes like the MLU version new RWR display had.Yes it won’t be 100% accurate, but much better than nothing.
If somebody show me how can extract the 3d cockpit from the game maybe I can take a look to modify it. -
Perhaps because some folks want to simulate modern day fighter piloting rather than fighter piloting in the 80’s…
To me the old F-16A’s were awesome, but also kind of yesterday’s news, so not really of interest anymore for me to fly. But to each his own.I agree with red dog that it would be nice if the block 30 would get some love and an updated cockpit with the cpd and other upgrades that the guard Vipers got.
The problem is that the engine is not suitable for this.
I have explained tons of times this.Even the older SAM are modeled a single mode generalized SAMs and jamming is literally just a two variable thing as I know.
The aspect and ECM modifier determines the track capability or radars and likely the effect of the chaff. When in reality was useless even against the SA-5 and SA-6…
Even against the SA-2/3 just made impossible the autotrack but manual tracking worked even without the need of three point guidance.
The F-16V, F-35 and every latest fighters have so many sensors and features which are not modeled even for an AI and not for players.
- ESA type radars (which can be PESA or AESA)
- MAWS
- Different data links
- Towed decoy
- Different ECM suit
- Different size of flare
Even the effect is SOJ in not visible on the RWR…
Even the sim. eng. capability of the MiG-31 is not modeled and can’t shoot down any plane any CM only ships and SAMs can do it.So if you are really speaking about “folks want to simulate modern day fighter piloting” I can state, they never will get it. Because it means so large task.
Because even the old tech can’t be simulated properly only with a very strong abstraction. BMS4 is a very high level hobby project but as everything it has its own limits.
Can you guess how could be simulated the system which are classfied and far more complex than ever was the SA-2/3/5/6 or just SA-10B or SA-11…?While for '80s we need only F-16A pit and that is it.
And it would mean a far better abstraction than a funny Block 70.So if you ask me the it would be better to stick to '90s and '80s. It mean better abstraction, we have sources about stuff from that era and it is far easier to do that. And it is more fun.
Because of the lack of shiny electronics and lack of a “complete” SA when only radar, RWR and eyeballs were available game play wise that ere is simply more fun.
In RL in many theaters even the BVR capability was limited or lower quality where the F-4 meant the BVR not the F-15 or F-18 or F-14.- If you ask me there is 0 fun in combat which means lofting ARH guided missiles against the same opponent then you fly home because going close it is simple suicidal.
- Also the ATO can’t handle such systems like the Buk-M1 (SA-11) and S-300PS/PM (SA-10B). It is not sent against them lots of SEAD planes from different direction.
- The AI also can’t handle the SA-10B. It simply massacre the planes - I have no tested the Patriot - because it simply can’t interpret what means if an SA-10B goes active… When a fire control radar of a TVM/SAGG SAM goes active in 99% of cases mean missiles are on way. But the AI simply does not care.
I have to say I’m pretty sad that such things have to be explained again and again.
Of course you can dream about the “modern day fighter piloting” just you and everybody had to be understood what it would really mean and why you can’t have them.
Even such thing is classified as the distance between the ALE-50/55 and the plane which uses it…
Good luck for the proper modeling of the n+1 missing things. -
I don’t think that the F16 block70 is so big deal. Most of the upgrade are under the hood, so there don’t have to change so much things to mock like the block 70. The biggest change is in the cockpit, but the national guard also use almost the same configuration the CDP. So if somebody make a good 3d cockpit with 3 MFD, then we will have block 30/40/70 at the same time. and there will be a good opportunity, to use these set up for another 4+gen aircraft which also have 3 MFD.
The CDP version has only one different that it show the exist things on display not in gauges, so there is only graphics and symbolic changes like the MLU version new RWR display had.Yes it won’t be 100% accurate, but much better than nothing.
If somebody show me how can extract the 3d cockpit from the game maybe I can take a look to modify it.The level of the abstraction would be simply far, far, far higher for the F-16A.
For the Block 70, how you would model the scan time and n+1 feature of the radar?
What about the MAWS?
Or n+1 other things? -
I don’t understand your thinking. The BMS is a F16C simulator, So because of you they just throw away the lot of things what we already have in the sim , because you want to play F16A and 80’ era? No GPS bombs, LGB’s, sniper pod, IFF, JHMCS,TV maverick etc… The BMS is living so long because they implement every time the most advanced technics what we know in public. Nobody say that we want to put in the classified way, but it could be acting like the real one.
But if they start to planing to implement this feature just in basic level it give an oportunity to improve it later on and remain the sim will live longer.
But If they improve backward to F16A then some of the player will lost of interest from the BMS because they can’t use the modern era weapons.And last, in the real world there are both era the 80’s era and the most advanced technics, so it doesn’t close out each other.
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Without trowing in all sorts a of real world knowledge,
Very simple, there is Yame64, there is Helios.
We already enjoy a CPD functionality and it is absolute awesome and it deserves more attention imho.
The only question would be to have that integrated in BMS, some people are devs and they know limitations of the software, some are just curious if it is possible.
There are many different ac type cockpits in BMS, which makes you wonder about F16A and perhaps a F16V interpretation.Personally I am already extremely pleased with the level of realism in BMS, maybe I’m not alone to say that BMS took this development further than I could ever ever dream of.
Rather than the ‘need’ to be explained where the limitations are compared to rl, we need to be explained to what it can, what we never use because we never bother using it.
After all these years I still am surprised by the functionality it has. -
Yes everything what we need is already in the BMS to look like an Block 70 version, . only one thing is missing , the 3d cockpit inside the game.
And if there is nothing to change in the system but it has a feeling to use a more modern version of F16 than before.
And As I said, if it is happened , it can be improve further. -
F-16V means AESA radar. BMS does not model AESA radar atm. Needs additional code.
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we would increasingly have to rely on guesswork, be drawn away from replication and more into an arcade type sim
Yes it won’t be 100% accurate
The problem is that the engine is not suitable for this - I can state, they never will get it
I am pretty sure there will be no “guesswork” anywhere…
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I don’t understand your thinking. The BMS is a F16C simulator, So because of you they just throw away the lot of things what we already have in the sim , because you want to play F16A and 80’ era? No GPS bombs, LGB’s, sniper pod, IFF, JHMCS,TV maverick etc… The BMS is living so long because they implement every time the most advanced technics what we know in public. Nobody say that we want to put in the classified way, but it could be acting like the real one.
But if they start to planing to implement this feature just in basic level it give an oportunity to improve it later on and remain the sim will live longer.
But If they improve backward to F16A then some of the player will lost of interest from the BMS because they can’t use the modern era weapons.And last, in the real world there are both era the 80’s era and the most advanced technics, so it doesn’t close out each other.
Yeah, how “fun” is flying against stone age enemy with such advanced weapons…
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I have explained tons of times this
So if you ask me the it would be better to stick to '90s and '80s
If you ask me there is 0 fun
I have to say I’m pretty sad that such things have to be explained again and again
Of course you can dream
why you can’t have them
Good luck for the proper modeling
:tjacked:
I have to be honest,
I personally find it disgusting to hijack a (any) thread and throw your personal believes about that F-16A model/cockpit/systems as a game-changer feature, while presenting and spreading show-stopping facts about a (any) possible future feature and negativism on even dreaming a wish-list feature or at least typing it here in a forum for sharing view with other interesting parties, individuals, devs, etc.
:yield: