Defeating the F-14 in BVR.
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You need to go low and pull several really hard turns (from radar gimbal limit to gimbal limit) while you get closer. Try not to black out.
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My understanding is the F-14 was built to carry and launch the Phoenix … not sure any other planes ever did?
Yes, but it didnt work out
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NASA did some Hypersonic testing and stuck one on an F-15B
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html
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Yes, but it didnt work out
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7Igj9nPFBMc/W4G5NqUN-pI/AAAAAAAALmk/QpXlUuRSPc41LAbkK6VtxCtUS8_9Ce6lACLcBGAs/s1600/1%2B970%2Bwith%2BPhoenix%2Bswept%2Blightened.jpgAs an AIM-54 long range CAP platform in fact the F-111B would be superior compared to even F-14B considering range, CAP time and firepower.
To make the VFX doable many of the original req. was deleted compared to the TFX goals.- escape capsule was deleted
- less top speed was expected
- much less CAP time was expected (just compare the int- fuel qty of the F-111B and F-14, the F-14 has just a bit more than 1/3rd what F-111 had.
- internal weapon bay was deleted
Only problem as a classical fighter the F-111 was useless.
Also in AG role if the Navy ever wished to use that F-111B could be good. -
But no one remembers what could have been –- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_F6D_Missileer ?
This thread is definitely a 1v1 scenario where the smug AI in a mehcat gets an AIM-9 up its A.
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Dunno how well the Phoenix is modeled but I do know a couple things. It’s a very fast missile when the motor is running around Mach 5 so yes it has legs. It’s not the best at Maneuvering. Getting down into the low alts will help get it to slow down in the thicker air. Cranking and turning cold and hot to bait the 14 is really your only option. She is also a very good Dogfighter even for it’s size. If you ever make it to a merge force 2 circle fights. In BVR try and switch him to be defensive. You can take long shots and if he ignores it you might get a kill.
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Dunno how well the Phoenix is modeled but I do know a couple things. It’s a very fast missile when the motor is running around Mach 5 so yes it has legs.
Nope, this is just a legend. It had long legs because launching at 30k feet+ it was literally a quasi ballistic missile with terminal and mid phase course corrections.
Even launching at very high alt the missile barely reached M4.5.
At med alt. launch the burnout speed was not even M4.0 -
Going from the NASA Hypersonic test trajectory “theoretical” chart (presumably based on the AIM-54C shown on their F-15B) the missile needs to be launched at Mach 2 and 55,000ft where upon they think it hits Mach 5 for ~8 seconds and is above Mach 4.5 for a total of 50 seconds.
The AIM-54A has a quoted top speed of Mach 4.5 but the C models are given as Mach 5+……but you would think that 99% of the time the F-14 would never be high or fast enough to achieve that result anyway. The problems for both the missile and AWG-9 on the B should be ground clutter and chaff.
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So to summarize what was written and my experience so far.
There is no tactic that will make the F-16 somewhat evenly matched in this scenario.
The best I could come up with is to open the fight with a lofted amraam and then turning cold right away, hoping the missile will find the 14 by itself and force it defensive.
Repeat this getting a bit closer and lower each time.
The problem with this however is even then, that you still can’t guide your 120 till pitbull, if you wanna survive the 154 coming at you.With this dynamic a human F-14 plot has the chance to in each iteration defeat the 120 quicker than you and eventually you would have a new 154 coming at you that you have to defend now without having the chance to fire at the 14 anymore.
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Well, the F-14 is a BVR interceptor. It’s faster than the Viper, and the AIM-54 (154 is the JSOW) has better performance than the Slammer on top of that. Your best bet is to hide behind mountains and use ambush tactics, or to run the Tomcat out of missiles (of course, that doesn’t get you the kill, since it’s faster).
It’s more or less the same situation as with the MiG-31 and R-33. You can’t really duel it in BVR, because it’s holding all the cards. IRL, you may be able to use ECM to level the playing field somewhat, but there’s not enough data to say for sure. The earlier Tomcat radars were particularly susceptible to jamming and notching, but F-14D fixed that (though there’s not a whole lot public data on that one). Either way, in BMS I don’t think it’s simulated.
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I would say the only real problem here is the AIM-54 really and considering I am having to adhere to design limits 800 / M2.0 or 600Ks with tanks then I sincerely hope the F-14B pilot is sticking to the clean manual limits of 780kts/M1.9.
Anyway at 40 miles and 2000ft the F-14 at M1 still launches an AIM-54C at me (at 30kft high speed) and running it out of energy here was not assured……and from that I saw chaff and jamming must work to some extent because it stopped guiding quite a few times. At this height I had the option to launch but well out of NEZ. (MehCat had 4 x 54C & 2 x 9M - I had 4 x 120s and 2 x 9Ms and 2 x 370s)
The AI in the Tomcat is really good as AIs go and does seem to vary his approach on the runs I did he also seems to defeat any Rammers not fired well into NEZ. I ended up merging a lot and the AI is very good here as well if you screw up. I was able to support some of my shots to Pitbull but even with a massive alt and speed advantage 90% of the time ( AI stayed low when I was high) I had another phoenix coming at me.
Vs a Human player you might be able to lose him at low level and pick up the massive Tomcat well before he sees you then sneak in.
I tried this scenario a few times with just 2 x 9Ms & 2 x 9Ps and not that much difference considering I was having to get close anyway…his IR missile defence was more effective than I was expecting…so it’s pretty good. There were a few times where he flew off maybe out of fuel ? #dontknow