Do I need all this expensive hardware to be competitive or enjoy the sim?
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I’ve seen some crazy hardware setups and just wondering if someone with a Aruco setup and Thrustmaster T-flight X will get anywhere? At the moment it looks like to fully realize the sims capabilities you need at least a X52 (more buttons) and TrackIR (more responsive?). Anything added on top of that like extra mfd’s, monitor or whatever will give you more of a edge. This isn’t quite like CS:GO. Your skills are hardware dependant right?
In short, will someone with a Thrustmaster T-flight X and Aruco setup be a handicap in a multiplayer game?
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I have a crappy old Thrustmaster T.16000M and use mouselook – and I find the experience super enjoyable.
Although I probably spend a lot more time massaging my keyfile and cfg settings, than most people with a few-hundred-$ hotas and head-tracking setup…
And I will surely lose any 1:1 dogfight vs a human with better headtracking and hotas. But I can hold my own against AI migs.
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The #1 thing that Multiplayer will require from you is to be able to stay in formation, could be a loose one but still. That comes down to the throttle mostly, since you constantly make small speed adjustments. One quick way of seeing what this entails, is to fire up the AAR training mission and see if you can hold formation with the tanker. He flies at a constant speed in a predictable pattern.
Other than that, you can do a lot with the keyboard. To minimize using the mouse mid-air, you could look into kungfoo’s app for tablets that gives you touch control for the MFDs. It’s free and really good.
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I’ve played Falcon BMS 4.32 during more than 3 years with “only” a Saitek X-52 and a Track-IR
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Aruco and opentrack work great, but it will take you time to make it work great. Tweak the curves and settings until it all goes smooth. Also, make sure the camera sees the paper well and you have enough light. The more FPS the camera has, the better experience you will have (yes, FPS is more important than resolution for this).
My view was a bit janky at first with some drifting, so I was re-centering all the time. I thought it was because of being cheap and using opentrack but no, it was the settings.As for the T-flight, it should be good enough for you to enjoy. You will probably have (more than usual) trouble with air refueling, so take that into consideration for multiplayer flying.
Yes, better HOTAS and “real” TrackIR will give you better control, specially for fine and precise movements (as AAR), but you can enjoy the sim with what you have now, see if you really like it and, if so, decide to save for better devices.
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I made my own headtracking clip with 3 cheap LEDs, three resistors, an AA battery holder, a large paperclip (to hold the leds) and a laminate board to solder it all to. Stuck some velcro on the side and mounted it to the headphones. Worked great with Opentrack, I never wanted real TrackIR.
I think T-flight HOTAS is actually pretty good, you can learn to AAR with any hardware, as long as you have the patience. Just mind that you’ll need to find your own technique, what works for TM Warthog users or in the real jet won’t work for a low-end gaming stick.
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I made my own headtracking clip with 3 cheap LEDs, three resistors, an AA battery holder, a large paperclip (to hold the leds) and a laminate board to solder it all to. Stuck some velcro on the side and mounted it to the headphones. Worked great with Opentrack, I never wanted real TrackIR.
I think T-flight HOTAS is actually pretty good, you can learn to AAR with any hardware, as long as you have the patience. Just mind that you’ll need to find your own technique, what works for TM Warthog users or in the real jet won’t work for a low-end gaming stick.
Agree. No reason to invest in ridiculously overpriced TrackIR.
Didn’t have the patience to DIY, so I went with Delanclip. Spent some time running the curves though. [emoji4]Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
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That would propably be the next step. A Delan Clip - wireless
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Is the stick too imprecise for refueling? Or is it something else?
That heavy centering on the T-Flight X does feels a bit awkward/arcady though. I heard you can adjust that by opening it up. Does anyone have a link to the process?
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Big thumbs-up from me for the DelanClip, too. I bought the full (wired) package including a modded PS/eye cam for around 60€ a few years back, cannot recommend it enough for its build quality, sturdiness and ease of use. I used FaceTrackNoIR for a while but then switched to opentrack during a system rebuild (and the added bonus that opentrack works both on Win and Linux).
All the best, Uwe
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Some tinkering skills and you can build you own wireless recharable IR headtracker which is basically the same as the Delan setup for around 25€ all together
Parts list for my wireless tracker. Only thing missing in the setup is a webcam, preferable a PS3Eyecam
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?39988-DIY-wireless-IR-Tracker -
You absolutely need headtracking. Not just to look around, but also to free some precious HOTAS buttons and the POV hat. But it doesn’t need to be TrackIR, there are several companies (Trackhat etc.) that sell headtracking packs based on Opentrack and a modded PS3Eye for below 50 bucks.
If you can strap your phone (Android) to your head, there is even a completely free solution: https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/wiki/Smartphone-HeadtrackingA HOTAS with enough buttons is certainly very useful and the X52 is indeed the cheapest HOTAS that allows you to map everything. I used a T.Flight HOTAS X for a while and with headtracking I barely managed to map the most important functions. It is the bare minimum and I wouldn’t recommend it.
If you want the best HOTAS that isn’t super expensive, try to get a used X65F (discontinued! :(). It is a force sensing stick and it’s super awesome, assuming it works. Mine has a bunch of flaws, but I could fix all of them. However, you might encounter other flaws and maybe you won’t be able to fix all of them.
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Is the stick too imprecise for refueling? Or is it something else?
That heavy centering on the T-Flight X does feels a bit awkward/arcady though. I heard you can adjust that by opening it up. Does anyone have a link to the process?
If you want to lessen the tension, there’s a knob on the bottom, right below thw stick.
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Is the stick too imprecise for refueling? Or is it something else?
That heavy centering on the T-Flight X does feels a bit awkward/arcady though. I heard you can adjust that by opening it up. Does anyone have a link to the process?
So much has to do with drivers, and also the electronics (old school pan-pots vs hall-effect sensors and other similar).
I recently discovered, VKB make a nice little exe you can download to graph your joystick hardware inputs. Seems to work for any DirectInput device. It’s great for getting a quick sense of …
- hardware / driver deadzoning (or lack thereof)
- any saturation problems, esp with throttle axis, at each end of the range
- the true “sensitivity” ie. how much pressure you have to apply to see a “movement” at the driver / DirectInput level, at least
https://vkbcontrollers.com/?faq=how-does-vkbjoytester-work
Inside BMS, be sure to set flight-axis deadzones to ‘none’ or ‘small’, if joytester shows the axes are well behaved around the center (And for throttle axis, small/none saturation if it’s well behaved at the extremes)
After that … in terms of hardware tweaks, AAR is mostly about reducing your input-render-loop latency, to avoid PIO effects. (Maximizing frame-rate vs monitor refresh-rate … and things like G-sync and triple-buffering can help. But that’s a different thread, and potentially a different tier of $ expense
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I too have wired delan clip and PS3eye now. 50€ if I recall correctly
As for refueling, the difference between a “cheap” hotas and a “expensive” one are the sensitivity for the small corrections. With the cheap one that corrections tend to be bigger and thus you will have to anticipate more to counter correct. So basically you have to “fight” more with joystick and throttle. As Dragon said, you will need patience and develop your own technique, but is possible. I upgraded my HOTAS sensors and the change I noticed the most has been I now need to correct less and smoother than before.
About centering problems or so, search for T flight HOTAS mod, hack or fix. I’ve made a fast search and found some awesome stuff. But in my opinion I would not go into buying more things for it, but keep the money for a future better HOTAS.
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Oh, sorry for double posting. Another trick to compensate lack of HOTAS buttons is using a gamepad. You can put it at hands reach and use it. If you have one, great. If not, there are very cheap ones that can do the trick.
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@Snaphaan or anyone else who wants some good equipment. I have a pretty good CH Pro Joystick and CH Pro Throttle that I will give you free if you send me a UPS shipping label. The package is 4 pounds, 1.25 ounces. 12 inches W x 9 inches long x 7 inches deep. It would be shipped from Roseville, California ZIP 95747.
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Big thumbs-up from me for the DelanClip, too. I bought the full (wired) package including a modded PS/eye cam for around 60€ a few years back, cannot recommend it enough for its build quality, sturdiness and ease of use. I used FaceTrackNoIR for a while but then switched to opentrack during a system rebuild (and the added bonus that opentrack works both on Win and Linux).
All the best, Uwe
Seems pretty much like what I did. I use the same curves for BMS and the others.
I prefer the cabled one, though I would prefer “antlers” as I have a 30" screen, placed high.
I’ve overcome the cable thing with a small power bank that can also feed my headset. [emoji4]Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
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I’ve seen some crazy hardware setups and just wondering if someone with a Aruco setup and Thrustmaster T-flight X will get anywhere? At the moment it looks like to fully realize the sims capabilities you need at least a X52 (more buttons) and TrackIR (more responsive?). Anything added on top of that like extra mfd’s, monitor or whatever will give you more of a edge. This isn’t quite like CS:GO. Your skills are hardware dependant right?
In short, will someone with a Thrustmaster T-flight X and Aruco setup be a handicap in a multiplayer game?
Greetings Snaphaan-
The “hardware” is simply an aesthetic appeal for us die-hard simmers. Instead, one very important thing you need to consider, regardless of whether you play single- or multi-player is the ability to MULTI-TASK! The developers make great strides in making this a very authentic flight sim, and just like in the real F-16, the secret to any pilot’s success is the ability to Multi-task: Develope your tactics based on your current situation (aka Fight) and continue to fly the aircraft. Whatever hardware you do this with is completely up to you. So if you’re not into aesthetics, build your “cockpit” (as in-expensively as possible) to ensure you can multi-task from takeoff, to your fight & back to landing and you will be just as good as anyone with Thrustmaster Cougars, Warthogs…and etc.
Like this guy! >>> :mrgreen:
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Jolly -
I’ve overcome the cable thing with a small power bank that can also feed my headset. [emoji4]
+1 for small powerbanks - makes the Delanclip basically wireless. All you need is a bit of power to drive the LEDs.