AMRAAM vs. SU-27
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Hi all.
I made a single player mission where I’m in two ship F-16Is vs two ACE AI Su-27. The Su-27 have two R-77s each and the F-16s have two AIM-120Bs each. Starting at about 80 miles out FL250. All aircrafts have Jammers. I find this scenario nearly impossible to beat. No matter what I do the AIM-120s keep losing the Su-27, while the R-77 never miss. I tried lofting a missile while in ROPT to make the Su-27 run away, But this wont work as the AMRAAM loses the target while I keep getting hit. I used TACVIEW to debrief and it seems that the Su-27 fire R-77 then run away from my AMRAAM. Somehow the pull this off, while I do the same and always get hit.
Any Ideas? Is this even realistic? As far as I know the AIM-120 is pretty hard to beat, but the Flankers seem to beat it almost all the time, even when fired well within the “no escape zone”. -
No. This is not realistic.
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Care to elaborate?
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At what airspeed and altitude are you launching the AIM-120B ? What is your MAR ?
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Hi all.
I made a single player mission where I’m in two ship F-16Is vs two ACE AI Su-27. The Su-27 have two R-77s each and the F-16s have two AIM-120Bs each. Starting at about 80 miles out FL250. All aircrafts have Jammers. I find this scenario nearly impossible to beat. No matter what I do the AIM-120s keep losing the Su-27, while the R-77 never miss. I tried lofting a missile while in ROPT to make the Su-27 run away, But this wont work as the AMRAAM loses the target while I keep getting hit. I used TACVIEW to debrief and it seems that the Su-27 fire R-77 then run away from my AMRAAM. Somehow the pull this off, while I do the same and always get hit.
Any Ideas? Is this even realistic? As far as I know the AIM-120 is pretty hard to beat, but the Flankers seem to beat it almost all the time, even when fired well within the “no escape zone”.It’s very easy to defeat two su27 + r77 with two f16 + aim120
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Your problem is that you don’t seem to know how to evade their missilesFly faster , respect your MAR and you should have no issue
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What does MAR mean?
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Minimum Abort Range usually
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OP if you post the tacview we can help you to identify exactly what is going wrong.
edit
Here’s an example of F-16s vs AI Mig29S and Su27s, you can have a look at the ranges we shoot and defend and general tactics here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/na0aviwrg8get4m/acmi0001.zip.acmi?dl=0 -
My strategy is to shoot the AMRAAM at above mach 1, with +5000ft above the target, and within Ropt. Usually that’s about 30 miles out. I also loft the missile in the required angle according to the loft cue. The idea is to make the Flankers run for their lives while I close in for another shot. What usually end up happening is that my AMRAMM loses and I end up running away, and still get hit by their R-77s.
Here are some ACMI files:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MfswqkB3_pCZjOdPoe48kcZMIq6BAs2c/view?usp=sharing -
I generally never launch from further than Rtr. I tried to recreate your initial parameters in Dogfight as 1-vs-2 with a Block 52 (jamming unfortunately didn’t work) and it was definitely possible to defeat the flankers, but certainly not easy.
AI will launch very early. This means that even when you just keep flying straight towards the AA-12, you can dodge it with a single sharp turn at the last moment (but don’t do that against an AIM-54).
Fly towards your opponents FAST. Somewhere between 25kft and 30kft. When you get the “M” on your RWR, wait a very short time and then loft and ripple one missile for each opponent (or do that once you hit Rtr in level flight). Before you fire your second missile, roll to the side and after it left the rail, IMMEDIATELY make a hard, but small (keep opponents within radar angle) turn to the side, maybe 45° at 8g. If your RWR goes silent, turn hot again. If not, do a split-s and then go into a climb (20°-30°) until you are confident that the missile behind you ran out of energy. As soon as your RWR goes silent, reengage. Maybe start the split-s slowly to keep your opponents within radar angle at least until they went HPRF active (Cheapshot).
Not sure if it works different with jamming.
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What does MAR mean?
theres a problem, read up about it in the manuals? try training TE 18?…
John.
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My strategy is to shoot the AMRAAM at above mach 1, with +5000ft above the target, and within Ropt. Usually that’s about 30 miles out. I also loft the missile in the required angle according to the loft cue. The idea is to make the Flankers run for their lives while I close in for another shot. What usually end up happening is that my AMRAMM loses and I end up running away, and still get hit by their R-77s.
Here are some ACMI files:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MfswqkB3_pCZjOdPoe48kcZMIq6BAs2c/view?usp=sharingif you are hit by the R77 this is because you THINK you can continue pushing instead of pumping.
if you watch your second engagement, you are FAR from beeing hit , that’s because you pump correctly at the right time with the right speed
Dont think you can make them pump without pumping yourself….
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Thanks guys for the tips. I’ll try some of them and report back