Warthog F18 Stick Review
-
Good Day, All,
I just got the F-18 stick for the Warthog, and thought a review might be helpful for anyone thinking about getting one.- Installation was was easy. You literally unscrew the stock stick, and attach the F18. If you happen to have the force sensing base and have a spacer above the knurled wheel, that spacer will work with the new stick
- I use the Alternate launcher for HOTAS setup, and that was easy, too. In fact most the the assignments were still in place.
- Buttons- Beyond the “issue” described below , button function is excellent .One addition I really like is button 14.My personal setup is somewhat “Hornet-ized”, but I know most of you probably go with a more stick setup. So, I tested that way, and it works fine. I’ve had problems in the past with Warthog press functions. 14 works great.
4)Use and Feel- The stick feels good, and the quality seems to be there. The pickle and Trim buttons are more spread out . People with very small hands might have issues.
There was one thing that took a bit of adjustment to. The SCS and WSS buttons are rotated about 10 degrees left, the trim is about 10 right, and the MWS.Undes. button is left of the centerline. It looks like the stick is designed that why ( ie: not just build wrong). So, you don’t activate the buttons straight up/down,left /right. The Button 18 for example, you push it to halfway between 8 and 9 o’clock. If you don’t do it correctly, the command may not activate. The most obvious example for me is button 8.
The good news is that it was easy to adapt to. I just went into Instant Action and within 20 minutes the muscle memory was forming. Now it just feels natural.
A friend asked I post my "Hornet-ized " setup. I’ll post that over in Project Bug later today.
In conclusion, I’m glad I got this. It doesn’t really add function( unless you fly DCS, too) , except for things like button 14, but it doesn’t take function away, either. I’m not having to sacrifice something to use this. And for a Hornet Guy like me, it sure looks cool on the desk!
![alt text]( image url)
-
-
I have heard that the ergonomics of this stick are not good for desktop use but much better suited for center mounted between the knees.
-
@mower said in Warthog F18 Stick Review:
I have heard that the ergonomics of this stick are not good for desktop use but much better suited for center mounted between the knees.
Hi, Mower,
I can see it, the “button rotation” thing I mentioned possibly being an issue. The Castle in particular took some getting used to, especially TMS-Right. If you “overgrip” the stick, like you would if your hand is coming in from the right, if does feel more natural. That also helps with the the nws/undesignate button, which is left of centerline on the stick, and is as stiff to operate as the throttle pinky button.
The problem with “overgripping” is that the trim button is rotated the other way.
For me, it was just a matter of getting the muscle memory in place to do the castle/weapon selector, for example, to 11:30/2:30/5:30/8 :30 instead of 0/3/6/9.
The good news is that now it feels completely natural, and I don’t get missed commands -
If you’ve ever had your hand on a RL Hornet stick grip the TM one will feel a bit odd to you - it’s a bit “fat”, and the reach to the top buttons (Pickle, Castle, and Trim) are a bit of a reach in comparison - i.e.; the grip is a bit too “tall”.
But as things go, it does at least have all of the switches you’ll need for a Hornet…plus a couple un-needed ones/positions/throws.
-
@stevie said in Warthog F18 Stick Review:
If you’ve ever had your hand on a RL Hornet stick grip the TM one will feel a bit odd to you - it’s a bit “fat”, and the reach to the top buttons (Pickle, Castle, and Trim) are a bit of a reach in comparison - i.e.; the grip is a bit too “tall”.
But as things go, it does at least have all of the switches you’ll need for a Hornet…plus a couple un-needed ones/positions/throws.
Hi, Stevie, and I concur. TM has accurately replicated the F-18 stick, albeit with the couple of extra throw’s you mention. But keep in mind that it’s a stick designed for floor, not console mounting. Mine is desk-mounted, so that’s how I reviewed it.
All in all, I wouldn’t have problems recommending this stick for you fellow Bug Drivers out there. In fact, let me update my earlier “doesn’t add functionality” statement. I’ve always wished that TMS and DMS could be on one switch, and using shifted functions didn’t really work for me. However, thanks to the 11-13 positions, I feel like I finally have that. DMS left/right are 11/12, and DMS down is 12.
Another thing I’m trying, and like, is DX/pinky on first trigger detent. That addressed having to reach for the stiff stick pinky button. First trigger is on Recce, and nws-A/r is on stick pinky.
BTW, I have tested this stick and setup in the BMS Viper. It all works fine -
@drtbkj - yes…my problem is that I’m just WAY too familiar with the RL grip!
Even when I use my WH stick I always put it in the chair with my knees/thighs against the base if I’m using it for a sim that is of a jet with a centerline stick…the WH base is wide enough to “sit” on and stablize it in a chair.
But even if I were to do that with the WH Hornet grip the reach to the top buttons is still overly far - probably only by 1/8" or 3/16", but very noticeable to someone like myself. I end up having to lift my palm to make actuations, and I don’t have to do that with a RL grip - bench mounted or in a jet. BTW - the grip should be in your lap in a RL Hornet, with top of the stick just above your thighs by a couple inches. At least, that’s how I fit.
Also - I didn’t personally note an issue with switch rotations. Once I figured out how to reach the switches they felt like switches, but again, I had to stretch my thumb in order to get to them and that felt way “un-natural” to me. I also think the grip may be/feel “fat” because of the extra position/throw on the Weapon Select switch because of it being a 5-way (though the WH grip doesn’t seem so)…which I could certainly do without, seeing as it’s not on a RL grip.
-
I friend of mine at work, who really plays DCS Hornet a lot, uses this stick extension and swears by it. He offered it to me as loaner for a day. I don’t fly DCS, so I a can’t say much about that, but in BMS, I personally prefer the A-10C stick as a better option. It’s not just the ergonomics of the stick, the button layout just seems really awkward. Maybe I am just so used to the Falcon setup over all these years, I am not sure. Perhaps if BMS has dedicated F/A-18 Avionics and key commands I might change my mind.
-
@chuckles - there are big differences between F-16 and F/A-18 HOTAS and what can be done using them, and once you figure out how to use Hornet HOTAS I have a feeling you’ll prefer the Hornet grip if it is set up realistically - however - I was just noodling over a RL Hornet grip a few weeks ago, and again noted just what I point our below - which is what I suspect also feels odd to you.
On a RL grip my thumb can rest dead-center of the Castle switch without stretching or lifting my palm off the grip. On the TM grip my thumb reaches the bottom tang of the Castle switch, and I have to stretch to reach any/all of the top mounted switches. Given the amount of time I’ve spent thumbing RL grips I personally find this really objectionable.
But as far as one grip goes - Viper vs Hornet - I really can’t say I "prefer " one grip over the other…each is designed for a specific purpose on a specific platform and as such does what it needs to do for that platform. Which is all fine by me. All I can say is that I have personal issues with the TM replica.
-
Hi, there, Chuckles and Stevie.
I can see where you’re both coming from. Chuckles, the F18 stick took some getting used to. Plus a buddy of mine got a WinWing and he really hated the feel of it. I think the stock Warthog stick as a more natural feel when desk mounted. As we discussed previously , the f18 stick reproduces a stick designed for center mounting and gripped from above-right.
But my grip is like Stevie describes. When I hold the stick with middle and ring fingers on the “shield” behind the WSS, the buttons are in the proper places. Plus, now that I’m used to the aforementioned “button rotation”, there are actually a couple of advantages. I like Button 14 a lot, and button 19 is a lot more usable for me then stock. I also like Buttons 11-13 for DMS. It may also help that my HOTAS set-up is as Hornet-like as I could make it(particularly WSS as MRM/DFT). Finally, as I hold the stick about an inch higher, I feel like I can pull more G with it. -
@drtbkj - that was another thing I checked for on a RL grip…there is no “button rotation”. The grip just plain feels natural, to me.
I’ve used the RL grip in a RL jet, Hornet Trainers, and on a bench top in Labs and it doesn’t feel any different to me in any location. I’ve also used my WH stick as a center stick and I can’t note any preference one way or another for either of them, as far as that goes.
I’ll also back up that in general you fly a Hornet with two fingers and your palm, unless you’re two-handing - and then the shape of the grip top becomes truly appreciated (especially you have realistic control forces acting on your stick) . That probably IS a center-stick thing!
-
@stevie said in Warthog F18 Stick Review:
@drtbkj - that was another thing I checked for on a RL grip…there is no “button rotation”. The grip just plain feels natural, to me.
I’ve used the RL grip in a RL jet, Hornet Trainers, and on a bench top in Labs and it doesn’t feel any different to me in any location. I’ve also used my WH stick as a center stick and I can’t note any preference one way or another for either of them, as far as that goes.
I’ll also back up that in general you fly a Hornet with two fingers and your palm, unless you’re two-handing - and then the shape of the grip top becomes truly appreciated (especially you have realistic control forces acting on your stick) . That probably IS a center-stick thing!
It’s interesting that you didn’t feel the “button rotation” on the real stick. But, we already know the WH -18 stick is not a truly 100% reproduction. The real one doesn’t have the 11-13 buttons, for example. Plus Thrustmaster even says they changed some thing in their structure.
I agree with you about the two fingers and palm reference. I do fly it that way. That “shield” that’s in front of the WSS really helps with that.
The only downside to that may be for people with small hands. For me, with large hands, my pinky is right on button 3. But, that button is stiff, like the throttle pinky. Also, I have to stretch a bit to reach the paddle.
In conclusion, I like the stick, but it took some adjusting to. -
@drtbkj - on the RL grip/stick the Paddle isn’t part of the grip - the only one to get this right and leave the Paddle off is Real Sim, even though they didn’t get the part anatomy and/or number of switch positions strictly “correct” either. In RL the Paddle is part of the stick itself, mounted on the top of an electronics box on the stalk.
The issue with small hands is what concerns me most - someone with smaller hands is really going to notice. I have pretty medium-sized mitts and the RL grip fits my hands like it was made for them…and I really notice how much bigger the TM one is. An even bigger issue would be if the button forces were to match the RL grip - they are much lighter than a real one, and maybe this is a reason why.
Personally, I like/prefer the heavier buttons and stick forces. Just plain feels more like an airplane.