Some suggestions for improvements for the next versions -4.5 ?
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Just to clear what is practical for us let me say that:
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Regarding everything but terrain mesh, we aren’t MS and we don’t see FS2020 as something we can compete with (I don’t think anyone can, I mean not really) - We don’t intend to ever get to that level of details, we don’t have the manpower nor the means to hold/stream this amount of data.
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The way ED are doing their terrain is probably the worse I can think of (Hold chunks of “3D models” and render them)
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In order to create detailed terrain you need DEM data, a flat grid and then use HW tessellation to displace the vertices. That’s the only sane way I know of and literally all engines/samples (And I bet all modern sims/games except DCS) I’ve ever seen are using this way to create a detailed terrain mesh. Of course then when you get into details there are other difficulties to tackle - For example a main one is the tessellation factors that DX support are limited to 1-64. The practical meaning of that is you can only create geometry at scales of 1-64 from the most detailed to the least. It sounds a lot but for a flight sim terrain, this will not be enough and so there are more complications.
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When I started working, I thought the main concern will be the terrain mesh - Well after some years I can tell that the mesh is really just the tip of the iceberg and there are many many more complicated challenges
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Adding details “by hand” to the general mesh can be performed but this isn’t a main goal and will remain a “later work” probably. Maybe also some randomness can be created in order to add even more details when very close, but this is for later.
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There is still time until it is ready for release, but we are working hard to make it happen and I have faith in the team and the excellent guys supporting this work to establish the goals and beyond.
Regarding those “20GB of RAM”, well that was just an illustration I made to let people understand the meaning of holding a 10m mesh data. Of course we aren’t going to hold 20GB of RAM, more like a tenth of that However, loading DEM in chunks isn’t a bad idea, but something that I still didn’t tried. It’ll be a challenge due to view distance, and the ability to “jump” between distanced locations by a key press, action camera etc… I’m not sure how much it’ll worth dividing actually, but that is a low priority for now anyway, there are higher priorities to tackle first
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@i-hawk
Thanks alot I-Hawk, we all have faith in the you, BMS team and yours and team ability to do magic with the code.
Adding extra details to basic terrain mesh - i’m all for it. I think it doesn’t need to be totally correct in terms of elevation of any point down to 1m accuracy. It just has to look “right”.
Anyways, i’m pretty sure whatever you guys bake for new releases it’s gonna be fantastic. -
Thanks for this very interesting discussion. Might OSM-data be an option for a more detailed terrain? XP11 makes good use of OSM data to “autogen” terrain and to fill it with buildings, forests, mountains, bodies of water, (rail-)roads and the like.
I don’t know if usage would be permitted in a product which requires a commercial license (however small the amount), but I guess that’s a question for the lawyers. (I think it should be ok as XP11 is using it as well).
All the best,
Uwe
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@hoover
OSM data is free as ‘as in freedom sense’. It is used in many other projects including FlightGear, Outerra, XPlane, also for many navigation/gps apps.
IIRC Google Maps data are proprietary and using it might require permission/licence from Google/Aplhabet. -
OSM data of course we know about… and we are already using some of those. I don’t see a problem with BMS, it’s not considered a commercial product anyway.
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Once I posted this (KTO DEM):
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@i-hawk said in Some suggestions for improvements for the next versions -4.5 ?:
Once I posted this (KTO DEM):
Dat DEM data.
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Hey @I-Hawk you may find this presentation
and paper https://advances.realtimerendering.com/s2021/Karis_Nanite_SIGGRAPH_Advances_2021_final.pdf an interesting read regarding current and future LODless rendering! Pretty sure you’ll find this interesting. -
Google Earth (in most areas) uses a 50m DEM and I believe the MSFS stock DEM does the same.
Honestly, I do not see a reason to do use a more precise DEM in Falcon if it needs so much RAM. It is an air combat sim, not a mountaineering sim and 50m is good enough for me.
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If I may be so bold…I speak as an inconsistent flyer. I go through phases of totally ignoring Falcon or BMS and then I go through a phase where it is what I play when I have any free time. I also suffer from a bit of impatience and tend to be a skimmer rather than a deep reader, unless I get super interested and FOCUS. That’s when “deep learning” takes place for me.
I remember that the original Falcon 4.0 had a very nice series of progressive training engagements all neatly written up in the spiral bound book that came in the retail box, which accompanied the training TEs in F4. SUPER helpful and useful.
BMS…well, honestly I miss the list of TEs that were in F4. Because I’m relearning . And that brings up a big point I want to make, the reason for this post:
I understand that what sets BMS apart from all competition is the level of hardcore realism to flight models, operational procedures, tactics and strategy, etc. To the point that sometimes it has bumped up against the fence surrounding classified data. Although it’s never talked about much if at all, I think it’s really impressive that the BMS team has communications with government monitors whose input keeps the sim out of classified territory. This a sim that is not to be taken lightly.
But…it’s not user friendly toward a newbie or someone who’s getting back into it after an extended period of time away from it, who basically is starting over.
I would very much like to see a built-in training syllabus that systematically teaches a new recruit how to fly and employ various systems, one TE at a time, and which essentially follows the educational path that a live pilot in training would follow in the USAF’s pilot training, generally following the UPT, IFF, and B-Course syllabuses. Of course, it would be adapted to be entirely in-cockpit as much as is possible, with academic exercises being in the included documentation for the student to explore if he wishes. (That, I think we have in existing BMS docs files, more or less.)
This particular training path would even serve the desire to keep it as realistic as possible, while providing a step by step, logical, and systematic training sequence.
I’m less concerned with eye candy. I also fly DCS and I consider BMS’s F-16 implementation to be FAR superior to that of DCS, and that matters more to me than the eye candy that DCS does offer, which is admittedly on a higher level than BMS 4.35. Yeah, it’d be nice to update the cloud generation, yeah, it’d be nice to improve the crash and explosion animations, but those are mere trivialities to me.
I’d also like to suggest that it would be nice to make it easy to switch aircraft types (and that includes reskinned models) for any TE or other mode of play. There are lots of F-16 liveries to fly with, and even lots of specific F-16 variants, why not let me switch to any of them any time I want to?
One final comment/suggestion/request: The control assignments screens could be substantially improved. I would like a feature that lets you press a button on your controller (Cougar HOTAS in my case…I’m old school) and have it identify the function assigned. And have a search feature that lets me find out if there is an assigned control for a named function. And…be able to create a control to feature assignment. For example, if I press the weapons cycle/NWS switch on the upper right side of the Cougar stick, it should list the commands and commands with modifiers that are assigned to that button. Or if I don’t know what the Nose Wheel Steering assignments are, type NWS or Nose Wheel Steering into a search bar and get the assignment.
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@buzzbomb said in Some suggestions for improvements for the next versions -4.5 ?:
I would very much like to see a built-in training syllabus that systematically teaches a new recruit how to fly and employ various systems, one TE at a time
But that’s what the training manual does with the accompanying TEs (training missions).
One final comment/suggestion/request: The control assignments screens could be substantially improved. I would like a feature that lets you press a button on your controller (Cougar HOTAS in my case…I’m old school) and have it identify the function assigned.
The in-game button mapping UI already does that.
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@buzzbomb said in Some suggestions for improvements for the next versions -4.5 ?:
If I may be so bold…I speak as an inconsistent flyer. I go through phases of totally ignoring Falcon or BMS and then I go through a phase where it is what I play when I have any free time. I also suffer from a bit of impatience and tend to be a skimmer rather than a deep reader, unless I get super interested and FOCUS. That’s when “deep learning” takes place for me.
I remember that the original Falcon 4.0 had a very nice series of progressive training engagements all neatly written up in the spiral bound book that came in the retail box, which accompanied the training TEs in F4. SUPER helpful and useful.
BMS…well, honestly I miss the list of TEs that were in F4. Because I’m relearning . And that brings up a big point I want to make, the reason for this post:
I understand that what sets BMS apart from all competition is the level of hardcore realism to flight models, operational procedures, tactics and strategy, etc. To the point that sometimes it has bumped up against the fence surrounding classified data. Although it’s never talked about much if at all, I think it’s really impressive that the BMS team has communications with government monitors whose input keeps the sim out of classified territory. This a sim that is not to be taken lightly.
But…it’s not user friendly toward a newbie or someone who’s getting back into it after an extended period of time away from it, who basically is starting over.
26 Trainings TE that go from the very start on the Ground and how to start up your jet up to Basic Flying up to weapns deployment accompanied with a 217 page very detailed Manua for every single mission
One final comment/suggestion/request: The control assignments screens could be substantially improved. I would like a feature that lets you press a button on your controller (Cougar HOTAS in my case…I’m old school) and have it identify the function assigned. And have a search feature that lets me find out if there is an assigned control for a named function. And…be able to create a control to feature assignment. For example, if I press the weapons cycle/NWS switch on the upper right side of the Cougar stick, it should list the commands and commands with modifiers that are assigned to that button. Or if I don’t know what the Nose Wheel Steering assignments are, type NWS or Nose Wheel Steering into a search bar and get the assignment.
to your help for easier assingment and handling inputs
https://github.com/chihirobelmo/FalconBMS-Alternative-Launcher -
I agree with Molni on this: I like nice graphics but function is more important than form, esp. since the sim already looks quite nice. And why push for more advanced graphics when it’s nearly impossible to obtain the latest gfx hardware from both a supply and cost standpoint? There are a whole lot of things I would want to work on before I worry about something like RT. But, just my op… : P
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I like to see a livery change modus in that tab where you can look up all the vehicles and bombs. But its not very importent, but yeah i would like that.
More places to fly from/at.
I really never have liked korea theater.
For some reason i cant get in to unlike balkans or desert storm but after so many years flying balkans etc its started to get “boring” a bit.Weather well for sure if it can be improved why not but knowing the game for 25 years now its something i get used to its allready much better then having to play falcon 4.0 back in 1998-1999 era and those kind of pc’s. So really i dont think this needs to be on the level of msfs or x plane etc. I think they did allready a great job on it.
Compair how it was.Graphic well sure if it can be upgraded why not but its that really importent for a allready massive upgraded game/sim? Yeah sure on the terrain side it would be lovely to have a better looking sim but for the age of the engine even with the updates i think they did a great job allready. Soldiers really could have some love
Those flatish paperbord style is really out of date. But overall i really enjoy the sim and how it looks allready like i said try falcon 4.0 on a 1997-1998 era pc.The one thing i would like to see is more different style of theaters.
Otherwise nothing really to complain about.
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At some point I think adding the messages that get displayed in the message bar to shared memory string data . Third party apps could then add those messages to a digital notepad of sorts, kind of like you wrote them down so its easier to reference them after they have disappeared off the screen.