Mod: Using MSFS as rendering engine for Falcon BMS - and enable VR
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@wallop BMS will always work standalone. This is an optional modification.
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@bms-for-msfs In that case, subject to what has been said above, it sounds to me like its worth investigating.
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@bms-for-msfs said in Mod: Using MSFS as rendering engine for Falcon BMS - and enable VR:
@wallop BMS will always work standalone. This is an optional modification.
Ah right, didn’t realise that.
I can see why it would appeal to some folks, especially the VR flyers. But for me as there’s no actual combat mechanic within MSFS it would just be a cockpit simulator and the novelty of flying Machloop type stuff around the globe would wear off pretty quickly.Wish you well with the project, I’m sure it would be well received by many in the MSFS community.
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I fully agree here, it would be a very bad idea to hook up BMS with any commercial entity. I’d rather wait patiently for the next BMS iteration (be it graphics, avionics, new terrain or whatever) that’s a labour of love by a handful of very passionate people than throw my lot in with MSFS and the like.
There’s a place in the world for both products, I’m sure. Also, it’d probably be hell trying to get to work MSFS on Linux in WINE or similar
All the best, Uwe
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This will never work
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Strong Door-to-door salesman with the latest chromed vacuum-cleaner with space-age anti-static wheels and self-charging Vibe.
Have a good day.
/close door. /roll eyes. /return to Falcon.
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Every now and then a sniper appears on the forum!
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There is no way that the dynamic campaign engine could be ported over to MSFS, even if you could get the artwork from the Falcon models into that flight sim. Prove me wrong, I’d love to see it… but I’m not holding my breath.
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Agreeing with most of the comments here with respect to the logistics being impractical if not impossible, were it to even succeed would anyone think it a good idea to put the game into the lap of MSFS where it would have to react to changes, updates, etc. by tying it into another sim? BMS has to stay independent and self reliant and it seems to be in very good, capable hands right now.
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Well, aside I’m not a huge fan of such idea there are few things to consider.
How it is gonna work? Would MSFS be just a renderer and BMS handle inputs, sounds, physics etc … and assuming viper in MSFS would be just pretty but empty shell (otherwise there would have to be Viper modeled system-wise to the level of BMS in the MSFS)
If so then one would have to find a robust way to inject into MSFS- textures for MFDs and DED
- state of all the dials/indicators/switches/buttons/warning-caution lights
- fault display
and that’s that’s the easy part
also find a way to display - radio subtitles
- comms menu
- end/abort mission window (interactive)
That might be more difficult, but I guess it still might be doable.
Have perfectly synced terrain (to avoid floating or sunk into the ground objects, proper collision detection and so on) and to be fair I think that’s ain’t gonna happen just because the way terrain is handled in both sims is vastly different.
On top of that MSFS should be able to spawn/despawn all the deaggregated objects, including all the flying objects, ground units and buildings. That is huge amount of things to process and I’m not sure MSFS can handle such amount of objects.
Assuming somehow it woudn’t collide with terrain in MSFS.And even if by some black magic someone would be able to make sucha feat I’d suspect there would be tons of glitches and bugs due to floats rounding in the conversion of the data exchanged between sims and I’d be worried about performance (which btw isn’t MSFS 2020 strongest side).
I’m pretty sure BMS devs could put some more elaborate insight but I think what mav-jp said is spot on, so I think there’s no need to waste their time.
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@xeno said in Mod: Using MSFS as rendering engine for Falcon BMS - and enable VR:
I’m pretty sure BMS devs could put some more elaborate insight but I think what mav-jp said is spot on, so I think there’s no need to waste their time.
We definitely have other priorities and as said, I don’t think you even have a slight idea how far we went on the new terrain
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From various glimpses here and there I’d bet it’s progressing damn well and it’s gonna be awesome.
I agree on priorities. It’s kinda makes no sense at this point for you guys to waste your precious time to explain why exactly this idea might be not worth pursuing.I just don’t wanna to sound so negative, all in all everybody can do whatever he/she like even if I see no value in their venues.
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To be clear… To interface with BMS, you need an API.
Today, developping such a thing might make sense for tooling but we just don’t have the resources internally to deal with all projects…
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Well I’m both technically ignorant and open- minded. Any ideas are worth discussion. As long as the developers are in no way distracted. Please.
There’s a "Je ne sais quoi " about BMS and literally every time I run it I’m amazed. And I don’t even do the famous dynamic campaigns; there’s something unpredictable in all but the simplest TEs.
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@semlerpdx It doesnt have to, the campaign can be controlled in Falcon. MSFS is only used for rendering.
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@bms-for-msfs said in Mod: Using MSFS as rendering engine for Falcon BMS - and enable VR:
@semlerpdx It doesnt have to, the campaign can be controlled in Falcon. MSFS is only used for rendering.
So far for DCS this is in Stage 2 since the instruments are working but not all the displays? Watching one of the Huey videos shows you over the ocean in DCS but over other terrain in MSFS, so right now it is possible to crash into terrain in MSFS but keep DCS flying, it’s like sim Inception!
But still an interesting idea. I just don’t know how you get even DCS let alone BMS to have all the objects and terrain databases so you see them in MSFS, I get that all the “scoring” is still done in DCS/BMS. Especially when neither have the terrain mesh resolution that MSFS has, how are you going to get the weapons to show hits on ground targets properly if MSFS shows them a even a few 10s of feet different elevation or that the buildings for strike targets don’t align properly to the RL level of MSFS? What is the performance level running the two most demanding flight simulators at the same time, let a lone this API that will have to translate stuff like that?
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Nah… I am quite content waiting to see what the devs come up with in a year or so.
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<blockquote>@Snake122 …it’s like sim Inception!<br /> </blockquote><p><em>Hee hee… </em><img src=“/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f60a.png?v=cn1jopfllvk” alt=“” class=“not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji–blush” /><em> </em></p>
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<p>Why losing time on such things, that will never work<br /><br />I could bring hundreds of reasons on the table<br /><br />Just think about some simple ones : :<br /></p><ul><li><span style=“background-color:#dcdcdc”> Ground intersection : </span>in order to have accurate CCP pipper or CCRP designation (and many many other places in the code as well) radar ray intersection with the terrain must be asbolutly very precisely calculated in BMS code so that the FCC is fed with accurate values. So explain me how to do that with a terrain that is rendered outside the BMS code ? we would need a wrapper to go back and front between bMS code and MSF terrain code ? ouch.<span style=“color:#aaaaaa”>Or you will tell me, do it on BMS terrain, then display in MFSF , but i’m taling PRECISION here, so your pipper displayed will be totally wacko compared with what you will see…</span></li></ul><p><br /></p><ul><li>LOS : All sensors , AA Radar , RWR , SAMS radars , IR sensors have complex calculation about Line of Sight (LOS) , This is in order to compute terrain masking, but also CLoud masking , Signatures / ground cluttering , IR sensors interactions with cloud , rain, sun, ground heat… all those sensors are dependant from terrain , Sun position, Weather …explain me how to feed correctly BMS code from MSFS terrain / weather rendering ? …</li></ul><p><br />Such Idea of using MSFS for rendering i just a fantasy of people who still dont understand that BMS is NOT just a simulator like MFSF or DCS where the environment is not interacting deeply with the core sim . BMS has DEEEP and HUGE interactions with environment , terrain , Weather , Season, Atmosphere as far as Sensors , AI , FM , Campaign engine are concerned.<br /><br />SO you want a pretty sim => fly MFSF or DCS , or wait for a few more years<br /><br /></p>
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<p>@Mav-jp I’ll wait!!<img src=“/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f60a.png?v=cn1jopfllvk” alt=“” class=“not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji–blush” /> </p>