Solved Very strange Air-Ground Radar display
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@Leech - ??? Leech, I have not made a YouTube video, and it will be at least next weekend before I have maybe a chance to do so. Sorry.
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@SoBad No worries.
I’m talking about the YT video with the AG FCR you have seen.
Is it this one ?
Have you seen other videos ?
Cheers!!! -
@SoBad Well first, we try to be realistic in what we do…
Second, talk with any F-16 pilots and they will tell you that AG is so unusable they prefer to switch to TGP when ever they can…
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@SoBad got to watch this one - it talks about building a radar “mosaic” image - it takes several minutes to compile as a radar scans a big area in this context.
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Ok, I’m going to make one thing clear. The following posted pictures with the fancy arrows, are not an attempt from my behalf to question your intellect. I just think that newcomers stumbling upon this thread, may benefit from the explanation, and If I come out as a smart-arse, trust me, I’m a dumb f***k, bu tat least, I’m not dumber than flat earthers.
Ok… lets begin.
The AA FCR doesn’t either display the entire picture on the MFD. Aircraft that are flying above or below you lower and upper scan limits, are not displayed.
To make things even worse, if you are flying at extremely high altitudes and are trying to detect very low flying aircraft, you radar footprint decreases dramatically when the antenna tilt angle is increased.
Looking at the YT video, the FCR is in 10 nm SP and cursors at 5nm.This means that the elevation T elevation symbol will not drift, unless the pilot pitches up or down .(assuming he has auto tilt).
I can also see l that the F-16 is flying fairly level ,and the antenna elevation is at a constant angle and slightly below 0 deg, so we don’t need to know the aircrafts altitude.
There seems to be a dark arched patch at the bottom of the FCR, but from 10nm and above, and I see clear ground mapping
I replicated it in BMS, put both screen shots together for easier comparison, and this is the result.
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@AWmk1
Here at 35:57 - ground mapping mode picture of modern commercial radar
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@MaxWaldorf
40:32 in that last video discusses a modern feature called a “zero blind range” which helps build a better composite radar picture.
I’m not drawing any conclusions about the f-16, just discussing radar concepts -
@AWmk1 We don’t work on concepts but real data and feedback from knowlegeable people…
You have info we don’t, happy to receive any documentation you have on F-16 AG radar mode… (unclassified or public of course)
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I experimented yesterday with the new AG radar on GM mode. The logic is sound and personally I find it a hell of a lot more realistic than a magic AG radar antenna that scans ahead of you and you can see the whole picture from the point of your nose up to 80nm. That never made sense to me being a newbie in BMS and compared to AA mode where you have to tilt the antenna to look for targets at various heights.
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What is lacking in the display is the smoothness in the shadows areas ,
IT is not Brutal in/off like we have now but unfortunatly that’s the best I could do with current display code .
Someday we will have a better display
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@Leech Not a problem. Appreciate the time and effort you’re doing with the graphs and photos.
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@danaos75
here is how the magic might be accomplished in modern fighter jets:
@ 40:32 -
@AWmk1 I will disagree with you. As impressive as it is for a weather radar it doesn’t have the logic of an air to ground radar. It more resembles an air to air radar. As you can see from the drawing at 4:19 of the video, the radar scans for targets that are vertical to the plane’s plane of motion. As opposed to air to ground radar that is trying to scan for a surface that is in parallel to the plane’s plane of motion and below you (unless of course you are flying straight down ). @Mav-jp 's video with the flash light is very illustrative as to how it works. Especially the part where he keeps his “antenna” elevation high up but lowers the flashlight. You can see that it covers a lot of ground like that , even though I thing the disadvantage being that you can’t scan behind high mountains that way. They will create a kind of radar shadow behind them.
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@danaos75 The new AG radar in 4.36 is giving me a headache, but knowing nothing about the real F 16, and knowing that our developers have earned great respect in terms of authenticity ( within the bounds of simulation) , I am determined to give it a damn good try before I complain. I suspect that the headache is caused by me having to change from what I’ve been used to over many years, to something that requires learning and plenty of practise.
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@danaos75 I’m a complete layman here, but clearly you can see this radar antenna in the video which is designed to detect weather also picking up “ground clutter “when the antenna is pointed at the ground. There is also a ground mapping mode which is at that minute mark I mentioned. They specifically mention a technology which uses old scans to produce a more complete picture of the “Blindspot“ of the antenna even though a portion of it is out of date
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I watched Mav-JP’s BMS 4:36 - AGR Explained video, but…
When flying 4.36, the ground clutter contained neither bamboo chairs nor power cables.
…These may be featured in an upcoming build…?
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@Aragorn it will be there in 3-4 weeks. That was the developer’s video
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@Leech - You have been only respectful and patient with me, and I truly appreciate that.
I guess that decades of using a “magic” A/G MFD display has spoiled me. Perhaps if BMS would have printed in large block print at the front of the A/G chapter: “WARNING: FORGET YOUR DECADES OF EXPERIENCE WITH FALCON’S A/G RADAR DISPLAYS. REAL LIFE IS WAY DIFFERENT AND WE’RE GOING TO ROCK YOUR WORLD WITH REALISM, READY OR NOT”. Maybe then I wouldn’t have been so psychological resistant to the major change you insist (and I 90% accept now) is realistic.
I’ll get used to it. I’ll probably rely a lot more on my TGP. Honestly, like MaxWaldorf commented earlier, I don’t see why a F16 pilot would want to mess with A/G radar in real life.
Hint: Maybe a ‘Full-Display A/G Radar’ config option??? If you can offer an unrealistic refuel rate option (which I use and appreciate) and many other ‘enhanced/simplified’ options (many of which I use and appreciate), then why not a ‘Full-Display A/G Radar’ option that simmers have been using literally for decades?
set g_fFullDisplayAGRadar (Default 0, Option 1)
Please just think about it.