AV-8B Carrier operations
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Hello fellow BMS simmers.
I find flying the harrier great fun and challenging, especially carrier operations from the Wasp class carrier. The only problem I have is that when I touch down on the deck it is as if the jet is moving forward with about 20kts. The opposite happens when doing a vertical takeoff. When the jet is leaving the carrier deck it is moving backwards in 20kts.
Is there any fix for this problem? I don’t remember this form flying in 4.33. -
@Mange first of all, when your speed is below 60 kts, it will show as 0. So its hard to know your true speed. Next, a bit surprising you’re doing vertical takeoffs, they waste a ton of fuel. When you takeoff, your nozzles are deflecting off the deck, giving you an extra push. As you rise higher, or leave the deck suddenly there’s less push and you lose speed. The reverse happens when you land. As you approach, your nozzles are pushing against just the air and sea. As you get close to the deck those nozzles ‘push’ against the deck and you get a small boost in speed. This is called Ground Effect, something helicopter pilots (and harrier pilots) are familiar with.
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@vyrago I normally do rolling takeoff. Just tested vertical to se if it is the same problem as landings. When landing i have zero relative speed to the deck but as soon as i set the weels down it is as if i have a lot of forward Speed. Really have to stand on the brakes just to not hit another Aircraft. All landings with 90 nossle, stol flaps and speedbreak out.
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I think its because until 4.35, ground effect wasnt modelled. I found a video on youtube from 4.35, and as you can see his speed is nearly 0 relative to the Wasp, yet once he touches down, he leaps forward a bit. Personally, I think the ground effect is too strong but there you have it.
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@vyrago Yes, exactly the problem i have. I dont think it is a groudeffect problem because landing on ground works fine. Maby it is affected by the ship movement?
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@Mange I doubt it’s related to the carrier movement? try this: land facing towards the stern of the carrier…see what happens.
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@Mange what happens if you land vertically on land based airport?
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When coming aboard the ship, you will have the same velocity as the ship once you touch down. It’s probably better to do an RVL vise a strict VL coming aboard, if the ship is moving at all…dunno. Been a while since I hung out with RL Harrier drivers…
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@vyrago Hi its a known issue apparently, just quoting from the BMS Naval Ops Manual.
“Once the main wheels touch the deck, the Harrier may experience a weird forward roll for no apparent reason.” p. 42.
With practice you can get it reasonably smooth but there’s always a slight movement forward on touch down. Its been like that for several versions. You could always put the hook down and that will catch you if you are concerned about it. Hopefully they’ll fix it some day.
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@Kavelenko - a Harrier doesn’t have a hook. Or a launch bar…
…and actually, you need to clear the touchdown spot as quickly as possible to prevent blowing the tires on the heated deck below the exhausts.
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So I messed around with the Harrier tonight. There indeed a touchdown forward leap, but I found it can be countered by rotating nozzles to 110 on touchdown.
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@Stevie said in AV-8B Carrier operations:
a Harrier doesn’t have a hook.
Yeah it does but you cannot see it.
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@Stevie said in AV-8B Carrier operations:
…and actually, you need to clear the touchdown spot as quickly as possible to prevent blowing the tires on the heated deck below the exhausts.
That’s some very interesting trivia…!
Makes complete sense once you read it, but - never comes to mind until you DO read it.
Cheers, dude.
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@vyrago Thank you . I will try rotating the nossle to 110 degree to counter moving forward
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@Le_Beau egen On land based operations the problem is not there.
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@Kavelenko - I worked on RL Harriers for four years. I know them inside and out. If a BMS Harrier has a hook, they are 110%, dead WRONG.
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@Kavelenko @Stevie I think they only have “hooks” for the AI since it can’t do a vertical landing.
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@unkindled Have any of you guys actually tried to land a Harrier on the WASP with a hook in 4.36? Please check it out first before saying it cannot be done. It may not be correct in RL but it can be done in BMS.
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@unkindled - as far as I know an LHA dosen’t have arresting gear, so nothing but Harriers and helos should be able to land on them…I think…
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@Stevie Are you referring to RL? I’m not disputing that but you can actually drop the hook and catch the Harrier with the arresting gear on the WASP in BMS 4.36.
Why bother if you can vertically land it right? But it is possible in BMS.
I have not tried it with another jet e.g. FA-18.