Solved SDBs versus runway sections
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Hi,
In 4.35 and earlier, it took 7 or 8 SDBs to destroy a runway section.
We have just flown a mission and 8 SDBs (good hits visually and as far as we can tell, good hits from TacView) did not even damage the runway section.
Is there a change involved here in 4.36 or did we just probably mess up somehow?
Thanks
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@Pegasus82 Have you tried BLU 107/B Durandals? They’re brilliant for runways.
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@Pegasus82 I’ll second what @Kavelenko said. Durandal’s are good for destroying runways but so is dropping a 2K bomb on it (I usually use the GBU-31). Most of the time I prefer to just take out the tower as that will reduce it significantly.
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@Pegasus82 said in SDBs versus runway sections:
Hi,
In 4.35 and earlier, it took 7 or 8 SDBs to destroy a runway section.
We have just flown a mission and 8 SDBs (good hits visually and as far as we can tell, good hits from TacView) did not even damage the runway section.
Is there a change involved here in 4.36 or did we just probably mess up somehow?
Thanks
Pegasus, I’m not a surprised that you’ve seen this change. It seems that in 4.36 our BMS Dev’s have taken a look at making ordinance effects more realistic ( if JSOW is any indication)
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@drtbkj Hi Joe,
Yeah I was suspecting it is a weapons-effectiveness-edit.
To the others who asked about using Durandals, we are well aware of the Durandal effectiveness versus runways (the right tool for the job), however this airbase was quite heavily defended (SA-9, SA-13, Shilkas) so getting into launch parameters for the Durandal seemed a bit too suicidal, hence we went for the SDB standoff option.
We are having another go at this airbase this Sunday, and will plan accordingly.
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@Pegasus82 said in SDBs versus runway sections:
@drtbkj Hi Joe,
Yeah I was suspecting it is a weapons-effectiveness-edit.
To the others who asked about using Durandals, we are well aware of the Durandal effectiveness versus runways (the right tool for the job), however this airbase was quite heavily defended (SA-9, SA-13, Shilkas) so getting into launch parameters for the Durandal seemed a bit too suicidal, hence we went for the SDB standoff option.
We are having another go at this airbase this Sunday, and will plan accordingly.
If stand-off effects are required for flight safety perhaps JASSAM or JSOW-C might be more effective than SDB, whilst offering equal or better stand-off potential?
JSOW-C and JASSAM both have larger (also unitary) payloads than SDB and might be capable of penetration in BMS? The warhead on the JSOW-C is in effect the same and the BROACH warhead in the RAFs Stormshadow.
For the game, I assume these might be suitable (in pairs or possibly as singles) to destroy a runway? I doubt they are used in this role in reality, but perhaps good enough in the sim?
Also, is there now an option to change the terminal descent angle of INS guided weapons? If so, perhaps a steeper terminal dive angle and speed might help (although SDB is still a tiny warhead so perhaps not, but for JASSAM/JSOW-C???).
Alternatively, depending on air defence from FLOT to target you could try an ultra low approach? SA9/SA13 & shilkas are not 100% effective against fast moving low altitude maneuvering aircraft, especially where terrain masking is an option. But this would be situational depending on your threat assessment of course. The risk would be to to take one or two losses off target - but if the runway has to be taken out and stand-off isnt cutting it, this may be lower risk than lofting a JDAM penetrator?
If you ever fancy a go flying low altitude strikes on carret DM me as its something 72sqn do a lot of training for, we would be happy to do a joint mission if you are available in the UK time zone.
Good luck
-S
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@Pegasus82 said in SDBs versus runway sections:
@drtbkj Hi Joe,
Yeah I was suspecting it is a weapons-effectiveness-edit.
To the others who asked about using Durandals, we are well aware of the Durandal effectiveness versus runways (the right tool for the job), however this airbase was quite heavily defended (SA-9, SA-13, Shilkas) so getting into launch parameters for the Durandal seemed a bit too suicidal, hence we went for the SDB standoff option.
We are having another go at this airbase this Sunday, and will plan accordingly.
Hi, Pegasus, The GBU-31 v4 still works well on runways. It doesn’t have fantastic stand off range, but it does keep you out of MANPADS. I haven’t tried SLAM yet on a runway…yet
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@Sharpe if he is flying the Falcon then the JSOW-C is not carried. That is a USMC/USN weapon. The JASSM would be a good recommendation.
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@JUmpstart5179 said in SDBs versus runway sections:
@Sharpe if he is flying the Falcon then the JSOW-C is not carried. That is a USMC/USN weapon. The JASSM would be a good recommendation.
Thanks @JUmpstart5179 - I was out of game when I posted. I knew we had access to JSOW, I just didn’t know what variants.
- S
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Thanks for your feedback everyone.
JASSM is not available in KTO Rolling Fire, and (as mentioned) JSOW-C is not available for F-16.
GBU-31 is probably the best compromise.
I plan on doing some more testing with SDBs vs runways. Again, I do realise that this is not a realistic scenario (SDB vs runway), but it is one of those things where “If it works in BMS, then we are going to do it”. Much like with the OP JSOW-As. We used those extensively, because, frankly, they worked really well.
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@Pegasus82 said in SDBs versus runway sections:
Thanks for your feedback everyone.
JASSM is not available in KTO Rolling Fire, and (as mentioned) JSOW-C is not available for F-16.
GBU-31 is probably the best compromise.
I plan on doing some more testing with SDBs vs runways. Again, I do realise that this is not a realistic scenario (SDB vs runway), but it is one of those things where “If it works in BMS, then we are going to do it”. Much like with the OP JSOW-As. We used those extensively, because, frankly, they worked really well.
Hey @Pegasus82 ,
When low altitude is not an option but med/high alt is available we use GBU31(V)3/B - make sure its the AP/penetrator. x1 will damage a runway section x2 will destroy.
Would you mind posting your findings about SDB below?
Would be really keen to know:
- Did you manage to get SDB working (how, did you edit terminal flight profile or something else)?
From a tactical perspective it would be good to know if you were left un-harassed at med alt (it you fly that profile) or (if you loft from low alt) if you get targeted when delivering your GBU31s.
Enjoy your misison
-S
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@Sharpe
Well, while -31’s will definitely “do the job” , of course AP vs HE, even HE will make some decent damage … in the end it is 2000lb bomb … just see effects on yt , … AP penetrator will just do do significantly better vs runway/hardenedBut, SDB’s are in essence also “penetrators” , just optimized with much less weight/explosive
From what I’ve seen, few years back on yt, they’re are capable even vs hardened shelters, similar to RUS zuni 120mm rocket (just this is ungiuded) - they pierce some 0.5-1m of concrete
… that is a real penetrator would do, … only end explosion is much less, but just to enough do destroy/damage a plane (soft target) in such hangarSDB vs Runways… arguably… they’ll pierce alright, but won’t make big crater … which imho will fix in matter of hours … oh, they are prepared in “not peace” time … with all kind of mix of gravel , asphalt … just for runways/taxiways … as they’re expected to be valid targets
Yeah, I wouldn’t spend SBD’s just for damage them , making them out of action for few hours only… but to destroy planes in hardened shelter/hangars … that will make plane and hangar inoperable for much longer time
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