How do you deal a fight against a J-20 in a f16 ?
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Hi all,
Starting to face J-20 in my campaign, i have started to train against it.
For me, it’s a new world.
I am used to fight against su-27, Su-30 and others fighters of 4th(+) gen, but the J-20 is an enigma for me.
Even in dogfight mode, my ratio of win is ridiculous. I lost most of my faces to face in rookie difficulty !!
I can’t override it’s jammer at a safe distance but it can burn through mine well before me, and of course i already have 2 missiles in the air tracking me …I find that all the tactics of cranking, pumping, MAR respect, … are no more valids against this aircraft.
Do you have some tips i can use to defeat this threat more often ?
Thanks,
Eric.Edit: I have read that USA has updated the taiwanese F16 to have some chances in BVR vs these planes with at least a better radar than the ones we use in BMS for the f-16.
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Unless you’re caught them off guard or you have more than quadruple the number advantage, its not advisable to engage. Otherwise, viper is more than enough to deal em in knife fight. Once you see 22 in RWR just run, assume missiles heading towards you already.
Tips is just delete J-20 squadron using mission commander or add friendly F-22 squadron to blue side to make campaign more fun and less tedious.
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@ericfa2a that´s the reason why it´s 5th gen. Bit of Maverick scenario
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it’s also possible that the J-20 model has been overrated in the sim.
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@FIrehawk7238 , yeah i saw there is some posts about this. But it’s not my taste to edit the campaign files.
@GhostDog-0 @Alfred . If we take Top Gun Maverick as reference, it’s true that there are some mistakes in BMS database :).
Finally, perhaps the only good tactic is as in Top Gun, to sneak between the two planes and “gun” them
But the BMS AI is more intelligent and engage you at BVR range ! -
@ericfa2a I got it, sir I was surprised too when it aproach to visual
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@ericfa2a said in How do you deal a fight against a J-20 in a f16 ?:
If we take Top Gun Maverick as reference, it’s true that there are some mistakes in BMS database :).
That is on point!
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@Alfred J-20 was made as accurately as possible. There is even neither AESA radar, nor passive detection capabilities. So, it was clearly downgraded.
It’s time to end F-16 godmode like many still want to see, while F-16 vs J-20 scenarios is most possible these days in Taiwan strait, so, highly relevant in BMS
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@Radium You are right that F16 is no more a “god” fighter in the sky, but it was already the case even before the J-20 program.
BMS is already ok to represent the big disadvantages of the F-16 versus these new threats.
Even the AMRAAM seems to be outdated today versus the new AA missiles in service (PL-15, R-37, … ) or near to be in service.
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@ericfa2a I try and knock out the airbase on the first night with a stealth strike to deal with them. If faced with them during a sortie I go defensive early. I’d rather abort than go BVR with them. It certainly adds a new challenge!
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Hello
BMS is also a game isn’t it?
To avoid waiting to be in a knife fight (you have to get there alive already) you have to shoot it with F3 and therefore acquire it with your FCR (between 20 and 25 nautical miles).
At high altitude, the J20 fires its first missile between 35 and 30 nautical miles: there are therefore 10 nautical miles (with the J20 still in approach or in crank because you are not threatening it) where you are blind… and its missiles in flight.
Also MAR and pump are to be forgotten: you have to fight his missiles during these 10 nautical miles while staying offensive in order to be in range to fight the J20 at the end.
Stay hot (be a hunter not a prey), fast and turn at the right time.
ACMI in the link to illustrate : https://we.tl/t-9wo48azN9t
If the J20 puts its ECM on , which it should not do since it is invisible (but it’s an IA) , it is even easier. Maddog 20° to his right (they often crank right) to make him go cold, avoid its missiles and never let him come back hot.But often this first maddog missile hits him.
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Hi @Rouge1512,
Thanks you for your feedback !
I will try later to do some testings with your advice but i have some questions after reviewing your ACMI file.
Have you put ECM ON in your dogfight ? Because in campaign AI has always ECM On and you must burn through its jammer before firing and i think you are well below the 20 NM distance to acquire it.
You seems to perfectly known where are the missiles and theirs distances relative to you ? Did you use labels or padlocking ?
For the Maddog fire, i must confess i never use it. I will try to do it in HOJ mode against ECM and see the results.
I will come back with other questions after trying what’s you did
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No ECM, but as I wrote you, it is almost easier with ECM because HOJ (read again my last sentence).
No labels et no padlocking of course : I’m just French
I will try to have time to post here tomorrow another ACMI with ECM.
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@Rouge1512 French also but less skilled !
I only evade missiles by depleting their energy flying away after notching them.Let me study your new ACMI file and i come back with an AAR soon !
I hope to be a j-20 hunter as you said !
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Since you are French, it is likely that you already know this Discord dedicated to Falcon BMS : https://discord.gg/8AXQBzZN
I belong to the FFW36 which occupies a part of this Discord and our base is here : https://ffw36.fr/
We fly every wednesday and accept everybody : come and see us and fly with us if you want without any commitment.
If you join the squadron (which is not an obligation to fly with us), you will get specific training in missile avoidance and specific documentation for this aspect of aerial combat: you are sure to become a killer of anything that flies, including human pilots, Frenchs or not
Je peux aussi échanger avec toi sur le sujet spécifique du J20 en vocal sur le Discord au dessus cité si cela peut t’aider.
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@ericfa2a said in How do you deal a fight against a J-20 in a f16 ?:
@Radium You are right that F16 is no more a “god” fighter in the sky, but it was already the case even before the J-20 program.
BMS is already ok to represent the big disadvantages of the F-16 versus these new threats.
Even the AMRAAM seems to be outdated today versus the new AA missiles in service (PL-15, R-37, … ) or near to be in service.
R-37 is a not comparable category to any AIM-120. Just because a missile has large kinematic range it does not tell anything about its effectiveness against maneuvering targets…
PL-15 seems just slightly enlarged AIM-120 nothing else, it has conventional rocket motor.
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@ericfa2a said in How do you deal a fight against a J-20 in a f16 ?:
Hi all,
Starting to face J-20 in my campaign, i have started to train against it.
For me, it’s a new world.
I am used to fight against su-27, Su-30 and others fighters of 4th(+) gen, but the J-20 is an enigma for me.
Even in dogfight mode, my ratio of win is ridiculous. I lost most of my faces to face in rookie difficulty !!
I can’t override it’s jammer at a safe distance but it can burn through mine well before me, and of course i already have 2 missiles in the air tracking me …I find that all the tactics of cranking, pumping, MAR respect, … are no more valids against this aircraft.
Do you have some tips i can use to defeat this threat more often ?
Thanks,
Eric.Edit: I have read that USA has updated the taiwanese F16 to have some chances in BVR vs these planes with at least a better radar than the ones we use in BMS for the f-16.
Please wait a TE I’m currently refining for that brand new Taiwan to be released (very soon, I hope) and you will learn that.
I guess.
With best regards.
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@Rouge1512 Thanks for the invitation. Flying with other people will be a next step for me. Solo simmer for many years only. Let’s discuss on Discord.
@Jackal Thanks you. Waiting for your TE
@molnibalage i am not an armament expert and i understand your point of maneuverability but we have little information about the real capacity. I have read also that in the past USA and NATO countries were surprised by the performance of some russian missiles. And we can think that China can be competent now in terms of armament production.