Block 50/52 pits
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Hello, one suggestion. I hope i chose the right thread. I would like to mention something about F-16 block 50/52 cockpits. I wonder if somebody else noticed that but when you see straight forward in the default position, you can see HUD and it is connected with two holders. These holders has bad positions imho. It should be turned straight forward and turned more into the middle instead they are turned too much to the sides Here are some screenshots with descriptions what i mean. Hopefully the pictures will describe it more and you can see there the holders are not in straight position.
https://postimg.cc/CR5xPpkS
https://postimg.cc/w70BQjtwI think this is not as it should be. When you compare the real photos of F-16 cokpits, also compare with other games how it should look like, you will find that using these cockpits making the feel from the game a bit unrealistic. This is probably not so easy to fix, just wanted to mention.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
I think this is not as it should be. When you compare the real photos of F-16 cokpits, also compare with other games how it should look like, you will find that using these cockpits making the feel from the game a bit unrealistic. This is probably not so easy to fix, just wanted to mention.
The hud frame angle is aligned to the pilots head.
- If your head is in the natural position then you don’t see the inner or outer side of the HUD frame.
- If you move your head foreward then you see the inner side of the frame.
- If you move your head behind the natural head position then you see the outer side of the frame. You could argue that it should not be possible to push the head into the headrest of the seat in the 3D pit.
However I don’t see an issue here.
Keep in mind that many pictures are taken with the camere in front of the head. There are maybe not so much photos where the camera had the correct position.
Also… comparing to the other flight-sim/game… They mimic the perspective of a camera which is placed in front of the pilots head. That is not really something that I would call realistic. But these are just my 2 Cents.
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Look at these other pictures please (hopefully pics hosting will work), is it really ok to see the outer side of the left holder from this angle (link1) ? Antialising if off but it does not matter, it is visible anyway.
https://postimg.cc/R3TNFLfc
https://postimg.cc/vDZ64k0DOk, if you say so there is no issue, then ok.
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The pictures do not load for me.
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@razo what about now?
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The pictures do show now.
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@FoxBMS If i look to picture from f4af, if i see good it looks different
https://postimg.cc/9zmSqTgX -
@FoxBMS or here it might be visible the difference also
https://postimg.cc/vgjwztmV -
@FoxBMS The sides of the HUD are not parallel, from the pilots point of view when sat in the real aircraft you don’t see the inside of the HUD supports. This is the effect being replicated in BMS.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
Look at these other pictures please (hopefully pics hosting will work), is it really ok to see the outer side of the left holder from this angle (link1) ? Antialising if off but it does not matter, it is visible anyway.
https://postimg.cc/R3TNFLfc
https://postimg.cc/vDZ64k0DOk, if you say so there is no issue, then ok.
Yes, it is totally fine.
btw: Who can tell me which block that is?EDIT:
As @SOBO-87 said the hud frame has some angles:
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
@razo what about now?
Well… The truth is out there (and not in other video games).
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@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
You do what with your mouse scroll wheel button? Why don’t you use TrackIR or any other head tracker with a propperly tuned profile for realistic head movement? Then you would probably not ba able to move your head where it can not be.
I tested your use case and moved my head to the rear much more that it should be possible (apparently we can do that with the mouse). Then you get to positions that don’t make sense (see your screenshots).
Maybe It is worth to suggest this to the BMS devs to limit moving the head to positions where it simply can not be. -
@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
Those two pics are not in the same place. The real photo is much wider angle and much closer to the HUD than your screen shot. I have experience with the real aircraft, and BMS does a good job of representing what the pilot sees. Fundamentally when sat looking at HUD you don’t see the inside faces of the hud frame like you seem to think you should.
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Ok, in short you don’t agree with me at all, i got it. But thanks for the answers anyway.
If i may add last compare, because here is visible the difference…so if i got you right, the cockpit model in this model on second picture and also from 3rd picture F4AF (because there is the same too) is modeled unrealistic ? Is it correct?
https://postimg.cc/Js45Gy9k
https://postimg.cc/fJvvz7gs
https://postimg.cc/rKTJ2ZjgI tried to chose plus minus same position on the pics. On the first picture (BMS), from holy logic if i look straight forward from this position, i should not see the outer sides of these holders. This is clear proof it’s turned to sides, i just thought it should be in straight positions.
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@FoxBMS The problem is that if you make the HUD 100% geometrically correct then it will not look the same as how a pilot sees it when viewed on a screen with a single centre viewing point.
So as a compromise you make the HUD so it’s not perfect shape compared to real life, but instead give the same Impression to the end user. This is a the BMS approach. In DCS the side of the hud IS in fact angled in at the 100% correct amount, and when flying in VR you don’t see the inside of the supports, because of the position of your virtual eyes. But when flying on a screen in DCS you do, because the 2D view is always going to be unrealistic, thankfully humans have two eyes several cm apart, and not just one eye in the middle of your forehead.
Personally for normal screen use the BMS approach is preferred because it’s more like how you see it IRL with your eyes, even though it’s not 100% geometrically correct.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
Ok, in short you don’t agree with me at all, i got it. But thanks for the answers anyway.
If i may add last compare, because here is visible the difference…so if i got you right, the cockpit model in this model on second picture and also from 3rd picture F4AF (because there is the same too) is modeled unrealistic ? Is it correct?
https://postimg.cc/Js45Gy9k
https://postimg.cc/fJvvz7gs
https://postimg.cc/rKTJ2ZjgI tried to chose plus minus same position on the pics. On the first picture (BMS), from holy logic if i look straight forward from this position, i should not see the outer sides of these holders. This is clear proof it’s turned to sides, i just thought it should be in straight positions.
Don’t try to “choose the same position”. Enter the 3D cockpit and look straight forward. It should be perfectly fine. Pushing your head virtually back too far by using the mouse will cause that strange look.
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Ok, thanks for answers/explanations.
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@FoxBMS
If you’d like to “zoom out”, scroll the mouse wheel back or choose a different field of view in the Configuration --> General --> Field of View selection. It will better keep the geometry without just pushing your POV out of the Eyebox.
Good luck!
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@FoxBMS
If the max available field of view in the config tool is not enough then you can set any value in the BMS config file. Just search for parameters that contain “FOV”. You should find a parameter for default FOV, max FOV and FOV increment.