Block 50/52 pits
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@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
You do what with your mouse scroll wheel button? Why don’t you use TrackIR or any other head tracker with a propperly tuned profile for realistic head movement? Then you would probably not ba able to move your head where it can not be.
I tested your use case and moved my head to the rear much more that it should be possible (apparently we can do that with the mouse). Then you get to positions that don’t make sense (see your screenshots).
Maybe It is worth to suggest this to the BMS devs to limit moving the head to positions where it simply can not be. -
@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
@Razor161 Hard to say where it is the truth XD. I don’t want to argue here but from the first picture you sent is clear visible the difference. This photo is perfect to compare. I tried to replicate it in game from the same angle. Maybe i’m blind but it’s really not the same…when you hold the mouse scroll wheel and hoover a few times from the left to the right and vice versa, it’s visible.
Those two pics are not in the same place. The real photo is much wider angle and much closer to the HUD than your screen shot. I have experience with the real aircraft, and BMS does a good job of representing what the pilot sees. Fundamentally when sat looking at HUD you don’t see the inside faces of the hud frame like you seem to think you should.
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Ok, in short you don’t agree with me at all, i got it. But thanks for the answers anyway.
If i may add last compare, because here is visible the difference…so if i got you right, the cockpit model in this model on second picture and also from 3rd picture F4AF (because there is the same too) is modeled unrealistic ? Is it correct?
https://postimg.cc/Js45Gy9k
https://postimg.cc/fJvvz7gs
https://postimg.cc/rKTJ2ZjgI tried to chose plus minus same position on the pics. On the first picture (BMS), from holy logic if i look straight forward from this position, i should not see the outer sides of these holders. This is clear proof it’s turned to sides, i just thought it should be in straight positions.
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@FoxBMS The problem is that if you make the HUD 100% geometrically correct then it will not look the same as how a pilot sees it when viewed on a screen with a single centre viewing point.
So as a compromise you make the HUD so it’s not perfect shape compared to real life, but instead give the same Impression to the end user. This is a the BMS approach. In DCS the side of the hud IS in fact angled in at the 100% correct amount, and when flying in VR you don’t see the inside of the supports, because of the position of your virtual eyes. But when flying on a screen in DCS you do, because the 2D view is always going to be unrealistic, thankfully humans have two eyes several cm apart, and not just one eye in the middle of your forehead.
Personally for normal screen use the BMS approach is preferred because it’s more like how you see it IRL with your eyes, even though it’s not 100% geometrically correct.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
Ok, in short you don’t agree with me at all, i got it. But thanks for the answers anyway.
If i may add last compare, because here is visible the difference…so if i got you right, the cockpit model in this model on second picture and also from 3rd picture F4AF (because there is the same too) is modeled unrealistic ? Is it correct?
https://postimg.cc/Js45Gy9k
https://postimg.cc/fJvvz7gs
https://postimg.cc/rKTJ2ZjgI tried to chose plus minus same position on the pics. On the first picture (BMS), from holy logic if i look straight forward from this position, i should not see the outer sides of these holders. This is clear proof it’s turned to sides, i just thought it should be in straight positions.
Don’t try to “choose the same position”. Enter the 3D cockpit and look straight forward. It should be perfectly fine. Pushing your head virtually back too far by using the mouse will cause that strange look.
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Ok, thanks for answers/explanations.
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@FoxBMS
If you’d like to “zoom out”, scroll the mouse wheel back or choose a different field of view in the Configuration --> General --> Field of View selection. It will better keep the geometry without just pushing your POV out of the Eyebox.
Good luck!
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@FoxBMS
If the max available field of view in the config tool is not enough then you can set any value in the BMS config file. Just search for parameters that contain “FOV”. You should find a parameter for default FOV, max FOV and FOV increment. -
The real (“foccussed”) pilot FOV is much narrower than wehave in BMS.
Irl, pilots have almost the nose on the HUD and must move the head/eyes to read MFDs.
Equivalent to below (I would say) but central (focus) it the useable sight.
Outside HUD aera is peripheral sight. -
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@Razor161 No no, we might not understand each other. This what i’m saying is not related to FOV but to 6DOF. Field of view is default 60 in my case and don’t want to anyhow mess with FOV or setting some unrealistic fields of view. This what i’m saying about is visible and is happening when i’m moving head with either trackir or moving the head with holding mouse scroll button (not scrolling! just moving the mouse with hold wheel button).
edit: This does not changes either when changing the FOV or not, so it absolutely not related to FOV what i found.
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Perhaps this example will show it more exact. The position on the first picture (real jet) is much more right than second picture (BMS). You can see there the position of right hud tower(holder) and at the same time you still don’t see the outer side of that. Although you are far more right. Tried to show it with green lines on the pictures.
Unlike in BMS when you just ligthly, really lightly move your head right in the same way, even less right than previous one did, then you immediately see the outer side of the right hud tower(holder). That is the difference what i wanted to point out and from this someone could judge it’s turned to side. If you fully understand what i want to say then you have to agree the FOV does not affect this and it’s not caused by changing FOV. Even resolution in game does not affect this.
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@FoxBMS said in Block 50/52 pits:
Perhaps this example will show it more exact. The position on the first picture (real jet) is much more right than second picture (BMS). You can see there the position of right hud tower(holder) and at the same time you still don’t see the outer side of that. Although you are far more right. Tried to show it with green lines on the pictures.
Unlike in BMS when you just ligthly, really lightly move your head right in the same way, even less right than previous one did, then you immediately see the outer side of the right hud tower(holder). That is the difference what i wanted to point out and from this someone could judge it’s turned to side. If you fully understand what i want to say then you have to agree the FOV does not affect this and it’s not caused by changing FOV. Even resolution in game does not affect this.
I have already explained this.
YES the BMS HUD supports are turned to the side more than IRL, this is because the BMS cockpit is designed for use on a screen, with a central viewing position. Rather than in 3D with two separate eyes.
When sat in the real jet the side of the hud is angled in towards the middle as well, so the pilot has the best possible view through the HUD, but not as much as BMS because it’s designed for two eyes and not one “camera” in the middle of the pilots head.
The RESULT in BMS is more realistic to how it looks IRL. This is a compromise.
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Tried this with TrackIR in my cockpit and FoxBMS is correct so the BMS HUD rails seems to be angled (outwards? or inwards?) more than real life. However, what I’m more interested in is — so what? A couple mm out of true or a degree or so more than real life, but how does that affect one’s ability to enjoy and fly the F-16?
For 99.99% of a pilot’s work, I would guess his head will be in the correct position so as not to notice this issue and for that 0.01% where this issue crops up, it’s probably not going to be noticed?
Just wondering what I’m missing here?
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@SOBO-87 Ok, now it’s 100% clear.