BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal
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@TOPOLO said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@Aragorn Thanks’ a lot Ara for your kind and warm post… (I really believe very few here take the time to understand what kind of lovely person you are)
If my post have seemed rude, I would like to apologize for that, was not my intent.
Some years ago, I spend a very long time (may be several hundred of hours…) to fine tune the F/A-18 FM, mostly by reverse engineering, but not only.
Once I’ve been able to demonstrate inside the BMS team the accuracy of this OFM when it comes to performance, I had the chance to bring interest of Mav.
He has accepted to code some specific F/A-18 FLCS features (may be the first time he accept to code something deep in the FLCS code for a non-viper a/c), and, believe me, this has not been done by educated guess (even if I must admit the level of detail available on Hornet is not the one we have on the Viper, and BTW, Hornet FLCS are much more complex and sophisticated than the Viper ones). The AoA and G limitors are an example, but you can also take into account Auto-Throttle, Auto-Flaps…
Even if the stock BMS4.35 Hornet FM cannot claim for the same level of fidelity than the Viper one, it is one of the best you can have (IMO many light years ahead of what you can have in DCS for example…), and of course, all 4.36 legacy Hornet FM have still the same level of quality and fidelity.
So, I can understand some always want to improve things, but I would have expected that before trying to modify one thing or another, one produce a detailed analysis of what is provided, and in what it is different from what it should be… (in the same way you should have ask a modification/improvement of one of the F-16 FM)…
And one of the problems with this kind of approach is that, if you want to demonstrate one specific feature being badly implemented, you may have to refer to documents you are not allowed to have (or at least you are not allowed to mention in a public area like here)Just to explain better what I’ve tried to say in some of my previous posts…
I will not be able to continue this discussion here for the moment, not because it is useless, but just because I’m focused on another FM to rework, it takes me several hours a day to fit the schedule the BMS team has allocate to me.
Stay tuned, and Fly Safe !
Firstly, Gorn, thx for the post. We are fully aware of the communication barriers that language and nationality can cause. Plus, I have come to trust your views on things, so if you “vouch” for him, then good.
We choose not to be bothered by what “things sound like”. We will work with anyone as long as the job gets done. Also, as passionate about BMS as we all are, at the end of the day it’s a game(gasp!) for our enjoyment . For the record, I personally pm’d topolo on this and he has not replied. We provided what we know is accurate data and there has been no response to that. We(the Mafia) are doing what we can but without hard code access. We understand that the Dev’s are very propriety with the code. No problem. But is there a reason the data we provide can’t be used, if even for testing? Is there a reason we can’t get an answer on the HAS NASA issue? May I suggest we worry less about who says what to who and address the issues?
We all want is a perfected Hornet FM. And , let me be very clear that we are NOT demeaning or insulting to what has been done before. We greatly appreciate the jet we have been given.
Topolo, I accept your apology and thank you for that. And, once again, I want to express my gratitude for what Mav, you, and others have provided. As for what we do, you are exactly right about the dangers and problem involved with the reverse engineering you describe. So, why don’t we all work together and get this done?
All, I’m going to take this opportunity to share a question I’ve been asking myself for a long while…Two years ago Mav came on the old Forum and expressed the hope that some third party handle would the Other Jets. It was that statement more then anything inspired the Mafia to form. My question is, why won’t you give us the tools to do just that, or even just talk to us about it?
If not, we will continue to do what we can with the tools we have -
@Dardo_01 Hi, Dardo. Thanks for that tip. Well certainly test that
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@Aragorn said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
Lads, I have to step in here because I feel compelled to alter your perceptions of Topolo’s post.
I worked with him for many years, and during that time I met some truly beautiful people.
Beautiful, kind and caring people of the calibre of Pumpyhead (curse him), T-Rexbian, Rufus Parsons, Cobracab, Seifer… basically - from the list - you can SEE the type of beautiful, educated and thoughtful people I reference.
Topolo fits in that group like a glove. He is one of the most polite, gentle, thoughtful and beautiful people that I have ever had the honour to meet.
Did his post seem to have “tone”…? Maybe.
BUT - Topolo is NOT a native English speaker AND he is very, VERY passionate about the (wonderful) work which he does.I have found that passion is OFTEN confused with “anger” or abruptness, and writing in one’s second language does not help with tonal qualities. He is not a rude man. If you feel so, you have misjudged.
I will always be in awe of the people I mention in that list, and Topolo soars high within that pantheon.
Gorny.
P.S. Also - he is French. And French people are very rude.
JOKE JOKE…!!
Change Topolo to MavJP and that will fit PERFECTLY! (and both are brilliant BTW).
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@Seifer said: Change Topolo to MavJP and that will fit PERFECTLY!
The bit about French people being rude…??
I never got to know Mav-JP, but I do remember him from Frugs when he was working with Raptor on the HFFMs.
I do recall him as being very nice back then.
Admittedly, he does seem to have become more cranky with age…!
Hee hee…
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@Aragorn said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
@Seifer said: Change Topolo to MavJP and that will fit PERFECTLY!
The bit about French people being rude…??
I never got to know Mav-JP, but I do remember him from Frugs when he was working with Raptor on the HFFMs.
I do recall him as being very nice back then.
Admittedly, he does seem to have become more cranky with age…!
Hee hee…
Don’t be so French.
Oh wait. Yes, be
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I am wary of insulting you, because I enjoy the indecipherable accents in your vids.
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@Aragorn All along, I only think of you.
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I am sorry but these last 5 posts have what to do with the OFM current news? Mr. Waldorf, can we edit the clutter in this channel here, I am sure there are other forum channels for meet and greets or social strokes . . .
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@TGW From your sig, are you a MEMBER of the fighter’s mafia…?
Interesting. I now have a completely different impression of a previously respected group.
Good luck with your strokes. Don’t burn your palms.
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@Aragorn Hi, ‘Gorn. TGW is a valued friend and Mafia member . I am grateful to have such a friend. Meanwhile, I suggest we get “back to business”, which is to make the best F-18, and Other Jets, we can.
We’re all in this together, Guys -
@TOPOLO and @Mav-jp are both valued members of BMS with aerodynamics knowledge.
Internally, I trust their opinions without question on that matter…
Now, @Aragorn and @LorikEolmin are teasing you a lot and in a friendly manner.
Maybe if you did not take things so seriously, you wouldn’t have to be offended…
We all do that for fun, we take what we do seriously but we don’t take ourselves seriously…
If you want to understand BMS a bit more then you need to meditate this last sentence
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How the F am i involved in a discussion I’m not even part of ?
That’s fame ? ROFLMAO
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@Mav-jp said in BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM) Journal:
How the F am i involved in a discussion I’m not even part of ?
That’s fame ? ROFLMAO
The price of being a BMS Legend, perhaps…?
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Meanwhile, Happy Thanksgiving to those that celebrate it. The Update for today is that Hornet/SuperHornet continues at a slower pace due to RL stuff and Holidays. One specific that is looking promising regards the SH spin issue. We’re also adjusting our “philosophy” a bit. Instead of just trying to solve problems by adding G performance to the mix , we’re looking at things that make the jet fly better, and where things like the autothrottle work.
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Good Day,All. Today’s update is about the F-18C FM. We are on a bit of a hiatus due to RL things and Holidays . However, Hornet testing continues and I have refreshed the Mafia files with these current F-18C flight model files.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/58cjejuvdnd0sf7/F-18C.dat/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/ccahmnbix0y72na/F-18C_afm.dat/file
These files go into 4.36/Data/any OFM-Chuckles-Osprey theater/sim/acdata
. The 3 functions - autothrottle , flaps, and take-off-trim self cancelling are all working. Now comes doing the best we can making the Hornet fly like a Hornet. The main issue still present in visual deck height on Enterprise. Today I’ll be testing other carriers and retesting ground based visualization.
This remains a WIP, but you are safe in loading them. I have tested them in 3 different OFM Family Theaters. They are stable.
These dats reflect our change of mindset. We’re no longer looking at max G performance and solving issues at the cost of other things. We’ve also come to realize that to fly the Hornet correctly, you have to fly it like a Hornet. Personally, it’s been fun learning that. I find myself telling myself “don’t fly it like a Viper”. -
Good Day, All. I took a little break from the Hornet today to take another look at the F-35C and the F-18E from the viewpoint of our “new” flight modeling mindset.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/s5lbgpqay831n/8519(F-35C)
From this link you can choose either the Fifth Gen Cockpit or the Hornet pit, and both have the current dat/afm.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/hwaabxncryt78yq/F-18E.dat/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/18ufxgfl9kouwq5/F-18E_AFM.dat/file
Like the Hornet, the immediate goal was getting the best performance while reinstating the autothrottle,flaps, and TO trim self cancel. The functionality has been restored, the 35C seems to fly well. A main goal with the Rhino has been to correct a tendency to flat spin. It seems to be doing better in that regard.
Finally, we’re hoping to have the visual deck height issues fixed soon -
Good Day, All. Today’s update is about the EF-2000. Mafia Member Scorpion82 has produced a revised flight model file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6wmn9up7645mi1n/EF-2000.dat/file
It goes in 4.36/data/Any Chuckles-Osprey-OFM theater/sim/acdata -
@drtbkj
Joe, I tried the new F-18E flight model for several carrier traps. The landing speed was lower than the “original” FM (about 135 kts on a light-loaded jet vs ~165 kts on the same jet using the “original” FM), which was nice because it provides a little more time when in the groove to make adjustments. However, using the new FM, I could not control the speed properly with throttle when Auto-throttle was on. Speed was all over the place. Here are some screenshots from LSOBot showing the “New” FM vs the “Original” FM:New FM (Case 3 recovery, night landing in fair weather):
Note how the speed is all over the place - Way Too Fast at X and IM, Way Too Slow at the ramp. My throttle (HOTAS Cougar) is right in the low-end detent when at this speed in this FM, so it was almost impossible to maintain speed in the bracket on the way in. This was repeatable (I did 4 traps, 1 waveoff and the behavior was the same).
Compare to this trap (exact same aircraft and scenario, same weather and nighttime) but using the “original” F-18E.dat and F-18E_afm.dat, the “original” FM:
No problem at all maintaining speed right in the bracket all the way through the groove.
So, while the new FM provides lower (and IMO more realistic) carrier approach speeds, I found it very difficult to maintain a steady speed in the bracket.
Would love to see the slower speed approaches but with the speed being better able to be controlled.
Thanks for your work on these flight models.
Regards,
Tomcattwo
(VoiceClone) -
Hi, T2. Thanks for the input. I had gotten out of the habit of trapping in AUTO, so I’ll do some testing later today to repro what you’re seeing. I’m glad you like the lower landing speed, that was a goal.
Meanwhile, I have questions…- In your first test, was the dat/afm used what I posted 6 days ago?
- Would you pop over to our Discord and post the dat/afm from your second test run( the “original” dat/afm)?
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@drtbkj said in [BMS Other Fighters Mafia (BMSOFM)
Meanwhile, I have questions…
- In your first test, was the dat/afm used what I posted 6 days ago?
Yes
- Would you pop over to our Discord and post the dat/afm
from your second test run( the “original” dat/afm)?
Sure.
Regards,
Tomcattwio
(VoiceClone)