Not looking forward to the VR update
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Is it just me that’s not looking forward to the VR update?
Don’t get me wrong, I like VR and I have a Reverb G2 and my eldest is still playing with the older HTC Vive, but I just can’t play for very long on VR. I also have checklists, printouts, and cheat sheets I need to refer to, which I doubt I can use with VR. I loved combat in Elite Dangerous in VR as you could really feel how cramped the cockpits were and how more agile smaller ships were compared to the big ones. I would do circuits over my local airport and do some exploration flights in XP11/MSFS too, but for the amount of cockpit work and kneeboard referencing needed, I don’t think I’ll appreciate VR.
A major concern I have is being able to tally bandits as well. Currently using a 4K monitor and TrackIR, but I’ve always felt like going to my G2 causes a drop in visual fidelity. Maybe increase the Smart Scaling to counter?
What I am keenly looking forward to, however, is the graphics/terrain upgrade. While I don’t “notice” the ground/terrain graphics, I guess my brain just tunes out how it looks so as not to kill immersion so much especially when I’m down low. A better-looking version would surely be appreciated.
Anyone else on the same boat as I am especially regarding VR? I would love to have the BMS implementation blow my socks off and I’d fully transition into VR, so I guess it’s a “let’s wait and see” scenario.
Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas! Bring on the new year and bring on 4.37!!
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@Atlas said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Is it just me that’s not looking forward to the VR update?
Don’t get me wrong, I like VR and I have a Reverb G2 and my eldest is still playing with the older HTC Vive, but I just can’t play for very long on VR. I also have checklists, printouts, and cheat sheets I need to refer to, which I doubt I can use with VR. I loved combat in Elite Dangerous in VR as you could really feel how cramped the cockpits were and how more agile smaller ships were compared to the big ones. I would do circuits over my local airport and do some exploration flights in XP11/MSFS too, but for the amount of cockpit work and kneeboard referencing needed, I don’t think I’ll appreciate VR.
A major concern I have is being able to tally bandits as well. Currently using a 4K monitor and TrackIR, but I’ve always felt like going to my G2 causes a drop in visual fidelity. Maybe increase the Smart Scaling to counter?
What I am keenly looking forward to, however, is the graphics/terrain upgrade. While I don’t “notice” the ground/terrain graphics, I guess my brain just tunes out how it looks so as not to kill immersion so much especially when I’m down low. A better-looking version would surely be appreciated.
Anyone else on the same boat as I am especially regarding VR? I would love to have the BMS implementation blow my socks off and I’d fully transition into VR, so I guess it’s a “let’s wait and see” scenario.
Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas! Bring on the new year and bring on 4.37!!
There was nothing to sacrifice for head tracking, apart from money. There is quite much to sacrifice for VR. Not very keen either.
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@Atlas said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Is it just me that’s not looking forward to the VR update?
Don’t get me wrong, I like VR and I have a Reverb G2 and my eldest is still playing with the older HTC Vive, but I just can’t play for very long on VR. I also have checklists, printouts, and cheat sheets I need to refer to, which I doubt I can use with VR. I loved combat in Elite Dangerous in VR as you could really feel how cramped the cockpits were and how more agile smaller ships were compared to the big ones. I would do circuits over my local airport and do some exploration flights in XP11/MSFS too, but for the amount of cockpit work and kneeboard referencing needed, I don’t think I’ll appreciate VR.
A major concern I have is being able to tally bandits as well. Currently using a 4K monitor and TrackIR, but I’ve always felt like going to my G2 causes a drop in visual fidelity. Maybe increase the Smart Scaling to counter?
What I am keenly looking forward to, however, is the graphics/terrain upgrade. While I don’t “notice” the ground/terrain graphics, I guess my brain just tunes out how it looks so as not to kill immersion so much especially when I’m down low. A better-looking version would surely be appreciated.
Anyone else on the same boat as I am especially regarding VR? I would love to have the BMS implementation blow my socks off and I’d fully transition into VR, so I guess it’s a “let’s wait and see” scenario.
Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas! Bring on the new year and bring on 4.37!!
In short no
Now I must admit flying BMS and then DCS on my 55" 4k TV has made me appreciate the visual detail loss but the 1:1 head tracking and sterescopic view make up for a lot of that.
There are multiple ways to overcome the kneeboard issue. When I was hardcore VR DCS a during the pandemic, I used an app called VRK. It is a VR Kneeboard app that works really well and I think will still work with BMS since it is directly injected into SteamVR/Oculus. There is also an OpenKneeboard app. These allow drawing tablets (I use a great sized and affordable Huion H640P)to be your writing notepad and then also allow other digital media to be on your virtual kneeboard.
I will tell you I use and update the virtual kneeboard far more than printing off the dead tree media. Digital media that goes into the kneeboards is just so much quicker to updated these days (which is why in real life aviation everyone uses EFBs, Electronic Manuals, and ForeFlight these days).
EDIT:
Forgot to mention, I also have a physical mod to my facial interface of my Pimax 8K X that gives me a look under view similar to RL NVGs so I can see my MFDs, switches, tablet, etc.I get what you are saying with the loss of visual acuity. However, I have found in my Vorpx/Virtual desktop apps that you lose far less of it with BMS than DCS (it looks almost the same as my 4k TV) and I expect that to stay the same native support. Yes, turn on Smart scaling, but you shouldn’t have to turn down the graphics nearly as much as you do with DCS.
You guys can continue to use 2d monitors, it won’t stop you. Eventually though I have a feeling a majority of us in 10 years will be VR, much like how long it took everyone to adopt TIR/etc. The benefits and the tech will make a tipping point eventually.
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@Atlas said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Is it just me that’s not looking forward to the VR update?
Don’t get me wrong, I like VR and I have a Reverb G2 and my eldest is still playing with the older HTC Vive, but I just can’t play for very long on VR. I also have checklists, printouts, and cheat sheets I need to refer to, which I doubt I can use with VR. I loved combat in Elite Dangerous in VR as you could really feel how cramped the cockpits were and how more agile smaller ships were compared to the big ones. I would do circuits over my local airport and do some exploration flights in XP11/MSFS too, but for the amount of cockpit work and kneeboard referencing needed, I don’t think I’ll appreciate VR.
A major concern I have is being able to tally bandits as well. Currently using a 4K monitor and TrackIR, but I’ve always felt like going to my G2 causes a drop in visual fidelity. Maybe increase the Smart Scaling to counter?
What I am keenly looking forward to, however, is the graphics/terrain upgrade. While I don’t “notice” the ground/terrain graphics, I guess my brain just tunes out how it looks so as not to kill immersion so much especially when I’m down low. A better-looking version would surely be appreciated.
Anyone else on the same boat as I am especially regarding VR? I would love to have the BMS implementation blow my socks off and I’d fully transition into VR, so I guess it’s a “let’s wait and see” scenario.
Hope everyone has had a lovely Christmas! Bring on the new year and bring on 4.37!!
I’m with you, and while I really enjoy WWI , WWII, and Racing sims in VR (G2v2) I also have made a commitment to reality for jet simulations (actually 90% BMS) and have nothing to gain from VR. It WILL bring a new crop of players in, and that is extremely important for the future of BMS…
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@Atlas I’m not sure I can play in VR. I’m playing inside my 1:1 full functional cockpit and maybe a solution that involve a mixed view ( real+synthetic) could be interesting
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You are absolutely right regarding VR - but not regarding MR/XR. The first consumer headseat for that will be available some time next year, that will change the experience you can have in BMS forever.
I was very very lucky to have a try at a friends house (BMS Dev) with the Pimax 8k in a dev build of 4.37, I did a curcuit around Gunsan, AAR and Dogfight. No words…
I for myself have a 3 projector 220° FOV setup for my 1:1 F-16 cockpit and also tried 4.36 in vorpx and a Pimax 8k there. Even that was awesome already, just to have the 1:1 headtracking. Now that I have seen trueVR in BMS, I know there is no way back to my 3 projector setup after 4.37 goes live and I only fly online in a highly tactical environment. Even though there are temporarily a lot of sacrifices to make (Kneeboards, my gauges and screens are useless in my 80k cockpit, etc.), there are workarounds for that, until MR is released to the consumer market with headsets like the Pimax 12k QLED.
The MR will solve every problem, you currently experience with VR.P.S. I had no issues with spotting enemy a/c in a dogfight even against the ground in the early dev build I was able to try.!
just for refference, to what I compare the VR experience.
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Pics of my mod to see physical cockpit, removed some foam under my eyes and some plastic that would sit on m/around my nose:
More extreme example for more FOV (I can always go back to regular facial interface as you can see there):
https://bergisons.simpit.info/making-of_reverb_g2_mod@Gancio said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Atlas I’m not sure I can play in VR. I’m playing inside my 1:1 full functional cockpit and maybe a solution that involve a mixed view ( real+synthetic) could be interesting
Yes, as we get deeper into VR, more mixed view solutions are going to become an option too.
@Korbi said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
You are absolutely right regarding VR - but not regarding MR/XR. The first consumer headseat for that will be available some time next year, that will change the experience you can have in BMS forever.
I was very very lucky to have a try at a friends house (BMS Dev) with the Pimax 8k in a dev build of 4.37, I did a curcuit around Gunsan, AAR and Dogfight. No words…
I for myself have a 3 projector 220° FOV setup for my 1:1 F-16 cockpit and also tried 4.36 in vorpx and a Pimax 8k there. Even that was awesome already, just to have the 1:1 headtracking. Now that I have seen trueVR in BMS, I know there is no way back to my 3 projector setup after 4.37 goes live and I only fly online in a highly tactical environment. Even though there are temporarily a lot of sacrifices to make (Kneeboards, my gauges and screens are useless in my 80k cockpit, etc.), there are workarounds for that, until MR is released to the consumer market with headsets like the Pimax 12k QLED.
The MR will solve every problem, you currently experience with VR.P.S. I had no issues with spotting enemy a/c in a dogfight even against the ground in the early dev build I was able to try.
Exactly!!!
Again though the sacrifices of kneeboards isn’t that big issue, there are already apps out there for writing on a kneeboard/checklists/lineup and other mission data on a VR kneeboard. Not to mention just the rudimentary, but better than DCS, pilot body kneeboards in BMS powered by WDP.
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@Snake122 said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Pics of my mod to see physical cockpit, removed some foam under my eyes and some plastic that would sit on m/around my nose:
Gonna need to try that!! Nice idea.
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@Korbi said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Pics of my mod to see physical cockpit, removed some foam under my eyes and some plastic that would sit on m/around my nose:
Gonna need to try that!! Nice idea.
Also check out the link from Bergison’s site. Mods like his to the Oculus and Reverb 2 involve removing material of the actual headset. Gets you more FOV, but you are definitely voiding warranties and I get hesitant around my lenses.
Since this is how the thread has gone, my current cockpit for reference minus a FFI I recently added which will be of minor use in VR
!
I also experimented with 3x55" 4K TVs in a U configuration, which I honestly loved. But the main home TV died and one of the got pressed into family use.
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@Snake122 many thanks! Nice solution
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Guys,
I was not convinced at first but after a couple dogfights and TEs… I was like “wow”…
That changes everything for BMS but I agree that I might still do campaign sorties with trackir.
Cheers
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I’m looking forward to others improvments in 4.37! When is going to be available all the changes made in 4.37?
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@VDK
Based on previous releases, a trailer will appear a couple of days before the release. That will show off some new features. Then once the release happens, a change-log is posted with more details -
@Gancio said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Atlas I’m not sure I can play in VR. I’m playing inside my 1:1 full functional cockpit and maybe a solution that involve a mixed view ( real+synthetic) could be interesting
In theory this is a good idea, and the Varjo already made VR + Extended Reality headset, but my biggest concern is the lights, and of course the game specific features like night vision and HMCS display. The Unreal Engine is capable to use smart lights for virtual production scenes (where the actors play before a LED-wall background), illuminates the room environment just like it would be in the 3D scene, but you can imagine that is quite expensive, and I doubt BMS would add this feature at all. Without this, the cockpit light always would be the same what you set in your room.
I think the full VR is still better feeling, simply because your cockpit and environment always matching together. I really looking forward the VR in BMS, because I like it in other simulator (not DCS lol), and I think this is a real progression compared to desktop view (the sensation of 3D space around you is awesome)
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@Snake122
One question
Where can I get that lamp? -
@Atlas All of those are pretty valid concerns if you haven’t played VR much in the past, I’ll try to respond as someone that just came to BMS yesterday after hearing about the impending VR implementation due to the potential for much better performance than DCS.
In DCS - All of the checklists, kneeboards, etc. translate into VR pretty well. I expect the same for BMS. The best explanation is that you have a giant tablet in front of you with all of your reference materials loaded in, and you just click through the different pages.
For in-cockpit work? I just reach out and click around with my controller (Using a Quest 2).
In terms of discomfort, I have replaced every strap and facial interface on the headset with muuuuch more comfortable third party ones, and now I can stay in VR for 6+ hours without significant discomfort.
After adjusting a few things like the above, I can’t go back to flat screen gameplay. The immersion of VR is just unparalleled.
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How long will VR improvements take? Will development of other areas of BMS keep apace? It seems to me new shiny features for the minority are transplanting all other requests. This kind of happened with the last few releases and MP vs SP.
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@CriticalMass said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
How long will VR improvements take? Will development of other areas of BMS keep apace? It seems to me new shiny features for the minority are transplanting all other requests. This kind of happened with the last few releases and MP vs SP.
You can join BMS any time and work on stuff what you think its more important for the majority lol.
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@brddog006 said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122
One question
Where can I get that lamp?Thanks for noticing, it’s a 2/3 AIM-9! They were plans from a website that doesn’t sell them anymore unfortunately. Feel free to DM me for more info.
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@VO101_Tom said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@CriticalMass said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
How long will VR improvements take? Will development of other areas of BMS keep apace? It seems to me new shiny features for the minority are transplanting all other requests. This kind of happened with the last few releases and MP vs SP.
You can join BMS any time and work on stuff what you think its more important for the majority lol.
I’m pretty sure you just invented a progression path to BMS dev team. lol.