Not looking forward to the VR update
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I’m very excited for VR implementation. Got a rift S that I’m waiting to upgrade to a quest 2 or reverb g2 just for BMS. Know there are plenty of folks sitting on the sidelines waiting for VR to come to BMS, as well. Now I can tell them, oh yes it has VR support! Icing on the cake is that all the optimizations would benefit track ir and monitor! Now you can choose which way you want to play! Wow!
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I feel indifferent, but really looking forward to the other new features. To be fair I don’t own a VR headset.
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@Snake122 - I get to fly a RL Trainer with 360 visuals regularly…so I REALLY hate TIR, as it doesn’t allow me to move my head naturally and fully. And VR goggles would just get in the way of me seeing all of my real cockpit interior. I plan a 270 degree, full surround projection for my pit - and I’ve seen people do that, so I know it can be done. I’d also like to put a “roof” on my setup so I can look up…so probably four projectors.
…one more thing I want to do is use something like Google Glass as a real in-front-on-my-eye JHMCS reticle…very glad to see the new Alignment feature in the latest BMS Release, but they will have to come up with a way to fully de-couple TIR rom the OTW before I can do that. Or, I would have to find a way…
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - I get to fly a RL Trainer with 360 visuals regularly…so I REALLY hate TIR, as it doesn’t allow me to move my head naturally and fully. And VR goggles would just get in the way of me seeing all of my real cockpit interior. I plan a 270 degree, full surround projection for my pit - and I’ve seen people do that, so I know it can be done. I’d also like to put a “roof” on my setup so I can look up…so probably four projectors.
…one more thing I want to do is use something like Google Glass as a real in-front-on-my-eye JHMCS reticle…very glad to see the new Alignment feature in the latest BMS Release, but they will have to come up with a way to fully de-couple TIR rom the OTW before I can do that. Or, I would have to find a way…
Yep, I remember your day job, at least as much as you share here. I really do get it, even with my not as cool day job but still understand what you are getting at. Just saying all of what you want would be achievable more easily and cheaper with a wide view VR XR headset
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@Snake122 - not given how much I’ve already spent on all those switches…alone!
I can’t tell anymore if I can build a pit because I can do my job, or vice-versa…
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - not given how much I’ve already spent on all those switches…alone!
I can’t tell anymore if I can build a pit because I can do my job, or vice-versa…
Again, XR that this coming or even the physical cutout so I can do NVG style look under on my VR nowlet’s you use all those switches and solves all you display headaches, unless you have already sunk the money into the displays. Even then you aren’t fixing your lift vector view or your HMCS issue as easily…
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@Snake122 - thought about that too…still don’t want it.
I had an Intern a couple summers ago that had spent a semester working on a college VR project…part of what I do is to give Interns and other Engineers instruction in the RL Trainer. We got in, she started the jet, released the Parking Brake, taxied into position, and slammed into burner - as soon as she rotated for takeoff and pulled the gear up the first thing I heard over the ICS was - “this SOOOO beats VR!!!”.
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@Stevie said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@Snake122 - thought about that too…still don’t want it.
I had an Intern a couple summers ago that had spent a semester working on a college VR project…part of what I do is to give Interns and other Engineers instruction in the RL Trainer. We got in, she started the jet, released the Parking Brake, taxied into position, and slammed into burner - as soon as she rotated for takeoff and pulled the gear up the first thing I heard over the ICS was - “this SOOOO beats VR!!!”.
I bet she would say “this SOOOO beats the RL Trainer” if you give her a ride in a real jet.
The RL Trainer doesn’t sound like an affordable alternative for VR. Even the home pit is not an option for many players.
I did a brutal simple mod of my Cougar throttle. It has a real deal travel angle and lever arm radius. I was really surprised when I set it on the Ikea baby stool next to my chair and I found out that it was on spot in DCS VR.
You guys will be fine. Or just keep flying in 2D.
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I just can’t understand how someone can complain about a feature that may not be for them, but at the same time doesn’t take anything away from them, just gives some “other” guys an extra fun. It’s just wrong to demand all dev’s attention, time and effort for themselves, and themselves only (especially if the devs are working on it in their spare time, for free, and they wanted this feature too).
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I am looking forward for the VR implementation on my favorite BMS. Especially for people like me not affording or not having a dedicated room big enough for a cockpit build, VR is the only alternate solution. I have though great respect for cockpit builders, because their dedication and cost involved is huge.
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@VO101_Tom said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
I just can’t understand how someone can complain about a feature that may not be for them, but at the same time doesn’t take anything away from them, just gives some “other” guys an extra fun.
Yep, it’s like people complaining about MP improvements because they only play single player. Unfortunately, VR just seems to be one of those polarising issues.
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@delenda Frankly I don’t even understand how VR is a polarising issue… you don’t have to use it lol, and it offers unprecedented realism and immersion for those of us who aren’t rich enough to build a cockpit in their house. Every other flight sim forum I’ve tracked over the years is pretty enthusiastic for VR updates and releases, and I don’t understand at all what those raising concerns over VR being added are trying to say.
Frankly, I’d take well implemented VR over a home pit any day - being able to check your 6 by actually turning your head, and seeing your friends flying with you in full 1:1 3-dimensional scale, while reaching out with your controller and flicking switches and turning dials in 1:1 scale, and being able to fly multiple aircraft without filling your house, front yard, and back yard with multiple different cockpits, is something nothing else offers to hobbyists right now.
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VR in BMS isn’t just for Christmas
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Seems like there is a good split between those that like VR and those that don’t really foam at the mouth for VR.
I would like to think I have a good setup – 5900X, 3080, Reverb G2. Perhaps it is the poor implementation of VR in DCS that I’m basing my opinions on? My previous experience in Elite Dangerous was with the Vive which had a clear screendoor effect going on, never really tried it again when I got the G2. Not tried any racing stuff too, although my lads and I raced each other on one of those commercial setups with what I presume is a G1.
I would definitely like to be converted when VR for BMS comes out; we will have to wait and see, especially how it can interact with my semi-F16 cockpit. I went from using Helios on a touchscreen to now using a SimGears ICP which I got early this year and interacting with the ICP is so much easier and fun now, I hope I get to keep that when I go to VR.
I have my PointCTRL stuff as well but never really got around to setting it up as I’ve generally shelved my G2 anyway.
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I am hoping the indirect result of VR will be that in normal mode the fps hit from 3D cockpit has been improved. I noticed that some cockpits f16 for example has far bigger fps hit than say a-10 cockpit. Day and night difference.
Will see if i will use VR in future perhaps.Cheers Obi1
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@TheChemistAstro said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
@delenda Frankly I don’t even understand how VR is a polarising issue… you don’t have to use it lol, and it offers unprecedented realism and immersion for those of us who aren’t rich enough to build a cockpit in their house.
Yep, I’ve been having this discussion for years on this forum (just checked, last one was 2016 https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/145562 ).
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I’m curious of the interface implementation. Will it be VR only when you commit to 3D or will the entire app be VR capable? I guess I will have to wait and see. (ok I can’t wait)
for those VR lovers who probably already use VTOL VR (great VR sim by the way) having VR in BMS is such an added bonus. As VTOL VR is limited in its campaign engine, BMS will shine!
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You will have UI in VRHMD. Like same as what DCS UI is in VR… just a 2D UI floating in a VR world.
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@Atlas said in Not looking forward to the VR update:
Seems like there is a good split between those that like VR and those that don’t really foam at the mouth for VR.
I would like to think I have a good setup – 5900X, 3080, Reverb G2. Perhaps it is the poor implementation of VR in DCS that I’m basing my opinions on? My previous experience in Elite Dangerous was with the Vive which had a clear screendoor effect going on, never really tried it again when I got the G2. Not tried any racing stuff too, although my lads and I raced each other on one of those commercial setups with what I presume is a G1.
I would definitely like to be converted when VR for BMS comes out; we will have to wait and see, especially how it can interact with my semi-F16 cockpit. I went from using Helios on a touchscreen to now using a SimGears ICP which I got early this year and interacting with the ICP is so much easier and fun now, I hope I get to keep that when I go to VR.
I have my PointCTRL stuff as well but never really got around to setting it up as I’ve generally shelved my G2 anyway.
Yes, unfortunately because of how much VRAM DCS uses, ironically a 3080 isn’t a good card for it. I’ve seen DCS actively use, not just allocate, 21GB of VRAM on the deck of a Supercarrier with my 3090+Pimax 8K X. There is no excuse for that much memory usage, but ED let it happen. I would anticipate unless 4.37 has some major texture upgrades as well that BMS be far more friendly to resources than DCS. It has been very smooth at full settings with Vorpx, when it doesn’t crash in the Falcon UI.
There is a large jump from the Vive, which I bet was what @Stevie 's intern was probably using, to the G2. There should be very minimal screen door effect is my understanding (it’s one of the few major VR headsets I haven’t played with) and should look very monitor like in BMS.
Honestly, if there hasn’t been a major graphics improvement in 4.37, paradoxically it should be a killer VR sim and much more approachable from a hardware requirement than DCS. One of the things I dislike VR DCS now is not only the stupid performance issues (CPU bound one moment, GPU bound the next with my system) is that you have to take a large eye candy hit and the clouds drive me nuts how bad they look with my Pimax 8k X and Quest 2. In my BMS VR experiments, there is far less of a performance hit for VR and I’ve been able to run it with full detail and most of the time at full refresh rate. I’m not sure how much sterescopic or something else BMS team has up their 4.37 sleeve will change that, but my gut tells me that this is going to be a better VR sim than DCS.
As for the ICP, YMMV. I get it, there is something about a 1:1 physical ICP for a Viper. Even after using a G13 as one for many years, I love the feel of my PSM ICP. But I would say I would rank my ICP experience as: 1. Physical ICP 2. PointCtrl 3. G13.
PointCtrl just makes the virtual cockpits we’ve been using for so many years that I’ve thought were lame to mouse and accordingly built differning levels of home cockpits and finally makes them feel very real to me now.My face foam/plastic chop look under mod makes it very natural to use MFDs in VR but you have to tilt up a lot to see the physical ICP and your headset view goes away from the DED then. Not sure if you have a physical DED, I use a G13 for that still so it works for me. You can also use drawer cushion bumper nubs to know your place on the physical device tactile without looking at it (thread here recently with that if you remember @Atlas https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/358996 ).
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I wonder how many here that are looking forward to VR either have limited VR experience or have something like a Pimax 8K or better? Once again, I point to my poor experience in DCS for my skepticism. My other VR experiences are in BeatSaber or other games which have no bearing with regards to VR for flight simulation, but still the issue of having the headset on for extended periods of time (more than 30min) do not really fill me with enthusiasm.
@Snake122 is the jump from Vive to G2 the same feeling jumping from the G2 to the Pimax 8K? For 1,000EUR++, I just can’t pull the trigger on something that doesn’t grab me at this moment with a G2.