4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off
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@chihirobelmo said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Question: without IPD setting do DCS and BMS F-16pit looks same scale to you guys?
I do not have the F-16 for myself, but tried it at a friends HMD some time ago, I can say it looked alike size-wise. I was then able to correct that issue by using the IPD setting.
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@LorikEolmin said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Guys.
Several things going on here. For starters the seating position in the F-16 is something more akin to a racing car rather than a more conventional aircraft seating position. Unless you’re sitting in an 1:1 F-16 pit the feet will very likely feel very high. This is normal.
Secondly your world scale probably needs adjusting, this is essentially tuning the distance between your virtual eyes to match your real ones. You can adjust this in SteamVR, firstly add BMS to steam, I added the the BMS exe within bin/x64 in the root directory of BMS. This seems to work fine. Once in the cockpit, open up the steam VR overlay with your VR controller, select adjust video settings. Select per app profile and select BMS. Scroll down to override world scale, and you can scale the world up or down there until it feels right to you. NOTE: World scale changes don’t work until you jump out of 3D and back into the cockpit. So make an adjustment in cockpit, end flight, and then re-commit to see what changes it makes.
Hope that helps!
Added the exe in root, added in steam as a non-steam game.
Tried launching from steam, CTD after load screen.
Launched from exe, doesn’t appear in the app list.App parameters in Steam 2D, tick the “include in VR apps” box, then restart Steam.
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Man, yes, that exactly answers our problem. But I’ll post a step-by-step fix for that. I need to use the x64 exe or it won’t start.
EDIT: there: https://forum.falcon-bms.com/post/361141
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@chihirobelmo said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Question: without IPD setting do DCS and BMS F-16pit looks same scale to you guys?
Depends, here for me Pimax 8K X with large FOV parallel projections unchecked (preferred setting) the scale feels right for real life and compared to DCS. I have sat in the real viper cockpit and trainers/sims multiple times in my life. But this setting has major collimation issues, HUD is only visible to one eye, screen overlays like FPS severely doubled, mouse cursor is way off (holding cursor over FFI actually clicks TIME or CRUS ICP buttons).
With the parallel projections checked which causes stupid high resolution (8k per eye), the scale and FOV feels very off. ICP is too close, pilot feels short and stubby, can’t look at kneeboard without issues.
My one flight with Quest 2 felt about right to me.
I also have access to a original Vive and a Rift S if that’s needed.
@Korbi said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@SOBO-87 I will try that, thank you. Can I use the steamoverlay without vr controllers too? I only have the HMD itself.
This @SOBO-87, I have V1 controllers but have V2 base stations up so the controllers are in storage. My VR controller games are Quest 2 these days. DCS is PointCtrl of course.
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@Snake122 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
mouse cursor is way off (holding cursor over FFI actually clicks TIME or CRUS ICP buttons).
Do you have a Touchscreen Monitor ?
My squadmate had the same issue with his 2nd Screen (Touchscreeen with Helios), afte rdisconnecting this 2nd Screnn everything was ok.
Maybe tis helps -
@Snake122 The mouse issue was solved for me by unticking “Hidden Area Mask”.
Did you try that? -
@chihirobelmo said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Question: without IPD setting do DCS and BMS F-16pit looks same scale to you guys?
Last time I paid them was the F-18 five years ago, but I remember that was small too.
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@Ferde said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 I know you asked Caldero, but I started this thread so forgive my intrusion.
The VR legs are at the real world’s bellybutton level. It feels as if the pilot in BMS was petite. But is the overall cabin that feels a tad too small in scale.
Like the flight control looks smaller than the replica I have to control it.I don’t have that feeling in other VR simulations.
To be clear, yet not to detract from possible real scale issues in BMS VR, the IRL belly button of an F-16 pilot is severely lowered due to the seat orientation, the knees are up way high (have to reach past them for MFD’s), and the feet extended more straight than bent - here’s a cutaway 1:12 scale model for reference - note how low the butt is compared to where the knees will be:
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@Viper said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
mouse cursor is way off (holding cursor over FFI actually clicks TIME or CRUS ICP buttons).
Do you have a Touchscreen Monitor ?
My squadmate had the same issue with his 2nd Screen (Touchscreeen with Helios), afte rdisconnecting this 2nd Screnn everything was ok.
Maybe tis helpsNo, but I do have a second monitor. Interesting fix. Maybe the PointCTRL…
@Korbi said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 The mouse issue was solved for me by unticking “Hidden Area Mask”.
Did you try that?No and I will! But that’s one more performance drop for the already killer parallel projections checked.
@Caldero said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
Guys,
Just saying, I realized people saying the cockpit feels “small” that could be interpreted either way. To me with the Pimax 8k X having parallel projections checked, the cockpit feels “small” in the sense that everything is too close to me, making everything bigger than normal (ICP, HUD) but smaller distances involved. I didn’t realize that we could be describing the same thing, so please give a little bit more of a descriptor there if you could in more physical reference.
I would say from sitting in the real F-16 and cockpit trainer multiple times, it is one of the smaller fighter jets out there and everything feels tight, close, but accessable. The F-15 on the other hand has the reputation to feel very roomy and spacious like “an old Cadillac,” partly due to the nose diameter with it’s large radar dish. Unfortunately, this is one of those things that doesn’t always translate as well until you sit in them for real.
@Caldero said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@SOBO-87 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@spotdott I’ve sat in the real jet several times, and yes the MFDs are beyond your knees.
Pic to illustrate.
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 see the MFDs just above my ankles, not my knees, and the pilot legs at the same height of my belly button
I think something is weird, not a showstopper (I love falcon in VR!) But I hope it can be fixed
Best regards
Just saying, your actual body or the VR pilot body? It matters because RL F-16 seat is much different position than an office chair.
Sorry I didn’t explained well, I mean:
In 4.37 VR with Quest 2 I see the VR MFDs just above the VR pilot ankles, not above his knees, and the VR pilot legs at the same height of my real body belly button (but the VR pilot eyes at the same height of my real body eyes)
I fly on a chair with the backrest not vertical but 30 degrees aft
I think the cockpit in VR is very tiny
Best regards
As @SemlerPDX shows with his model picture, knees at belly button isn’t actually that far off. You lower legs stretch out to the rudder pedals to where your ankles don’t go much lower than your knees. All of that is suppose to help with G tolerance so less distance for the blood to pool. And the cockpit isn’t A-4 tight, but it is small IRL.
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I see what you mean about the pilot position but my problem is the legs themselves, not the knees. Well, the overall scale of the cockpit, the legs just make it more evident.
When I look down, my VR waist and legs are at my real life’s bellybutton. If I turn off the pilot, the seat itself it too high (too close to my head). Also the controls and buttons feel too small. VR is supposed to feel 1:1 and in this case there is no way I could flip only one swich in the right side panel without touching the others next to it.So I’ve activated the F-16 trial in DCS and indeed the cabin feels a bit bigger and more like 1:1.
Back to BMS I’ve tested Lorik’s solution to scale up to 125% and it works. While it’s still a small place (as it should be), my legs feel in the right place and everything feels right.
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@Ferde that’s similar to what I feel with parallel projections checked in the 8K X. HUD is way too wide and ICP is too close. With them unchecked, it feels more correct, smaller, a little more distant.
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@Snake122 Has anybody tried adjusting the FOV and zoom sliders in the View VR menu
Also sounds like a lot of you need to recenter
your HMD your knee’s should not be above
your head there is a key bind for your HOTAS
It’s three quarters down the key mapping
menu. -
@Lippy I recenter every time I enter the cockpit. I’m not saying that the knees look above you head in VR, nor that they should ever. Its knees should be more about your belly button level, ankles slightly below you knees, reclined back in the real cockpit, and that’s how it should look in VR. Very different from an office chair most sit in (think more like a recliner) and even most other cockpit seating positions. Most others are more traditional seating angle. Different types vary in spaciousness, which is hard to describe but interestingly, well scaled VR can carry over. The F-16 is tight without being cramped (you strap the airplane onto you feeling), F-15 and P-47 are know for being spacious, A-4 is known for being almost claustrophobic (pilots often bounce their heads of the canopy during a full rate roll). So every cockpit should have its own sense of scale too.
If I was going to put a real life distance with the F-16 FOV issues I see with the default scaling with the Pimax parallel projections checked, I would say about im about .2 meters from the from the ICP, view centered through the HUD after the reset VR rotation command that’s mapped. I have a both some real world experience in the F-16 cockpit and a long time habit of running my home cockpit to fairly close to actual positions to make that ICP distance judgement in that part of VR. For years, I have strived to set the HUD supports width to the actual size on my monitor with the FOV setting as my default view. Also my home cockpit chair is a similar size, height, and tilt to the actual seat at a similar distance from eye position to HUD.
If uncheck the parallel projections, the scaling gets more correct, maybe slightly smaller than it should be, but that setting right now has lots of collimation issues.
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@Snake122 I got to sit in a F16 fam trainer it was in a museum and not hooked up to anything. My VR experience in BMS 4.37 was similar vary tight and cramped my head almost touching the top of the canopy I like my seat a little higher I did move my FOV forward slightly haven’t messed with the zoom slider yet. Well now both of us know what its like to strap on the jet There is no way I’m going back to track IR.
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Pico 4 here. (9600k 4.8ghz and 3070Ti oc to Hell)
VR looks and runs great trough virtual desktop (i hate wires)
Steam VR world scale 125% is spot on.
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@Lippy said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Snake122 I got to sit in a F16 fam trainer it was in a museum and not hooked up to anything. My VR experience in BMS 4.37 was similar vary tight and cramped my head almost touching the top of the canopy I like my seat a little higher I did move my FOV forward slightly haven’t messed with the zoom slider yet. Well now both of us know what its like to strap on the jet There is no way I’m going back to track IR.
The Zoom (AFAIK) is not a “slider” in VR as it is in 2D using the mouse, its an on/off switch. Not sure if i’m missing something though…
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I know, something is off.
But until perfect 3D model / scale fix is ready i use 125% for compromise
May try 100% once again without pilot pody.
Body or cocpit is not 1:1
(Or maybe its virtual head postion)
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@haukka81 said in 4.37 VR cockpit scale feels off:
@Dee-Jay
(Or maybe its virtual head postion)This. I think it’s too far backward.
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I found this pics. maybe those are help to identify the problem.
My first thought that the pedals should move way deeper and the knees should align with the ICP and the seat end.
And also I feel the head position is also misalignment a little.
Right now I feel like he head is somewhere in the shoulder height and further from the ICP.