Editing availiable weapons in Squadrons with Tacedit
-
Sorry to say this… but those are considered obvious stuff… like 1+1=2
Just a clarification here… not remove the hardpoint to remove a weapon but from the hardpoint remove the weapon.
Also in some AC’s they share the same data entries (probably from the addcopy function) and making changes to one will affect the connected ones also.
Like:
F-16C-30 -> F-16C-32/40/42
F-16C-50 -> F-16C-52
F-16C-52+ -> F-16C-52+CFT -
1+1=2 (obvious stuff) for you and for me maybe, …but not for everyone Arty.
I know what problem Molni has (i had the same long time ago). He will be able to fix it.
PS: Yes, remove weapon from hardpoint (as i wrote before)… and yes (IMPORTANT) …some aircrafts also use same data entries.
-
Disabled WHERE and how? Removed weapon from “hardpoint data” or removed “hardpoint” aswell? Or just removed in SSD?
Disable in my term means setting 0 in SSD DB entry. I do not how but as I know if you set 0 in SSD regardless of resupply in campaigns that weapon qty. never will or never should increase. At least this was the case in FF5.x. this is how were limited first the weapons in campaigns to help the ATO+AI. Maybe there is something in the code which checks the stores in 0 hour of campaigns and keeps forever the qty. 0 or disable the resupply forever for weapons which have 0 value in SSD.
This is why they still load even if NULL-ed in store count.
No, this is the problem itself. Some weapons have minimal qty. even if you set 0 in SSD - and as I can remember they never will be resupplied, so if you have used the minimal qty. the issue will be gone - but some do not have. Of course the most simpliest (and too brutal) way is deleting non desired weapons from HP DB entries but this seriously restricts the game in TE too, therefore I do not like this way. Just imagine how would look F-16s in case I delete every weapons which I consider not enogh good for campaigns… F-16A B15 in late '80s would have only Mk-84, AGM-65D, AIM-9M, CBU-71 and maybe smoke rocket pods… I rather allow not always optimal loadouts for 3D world than totally brake the freedom of players.
For human controlled AC the restriction should be smaller but on old, never well modeled old red jets I made very, very serious restrictions. Some of the can carry only 3-4 different type of weapons.
-
Molny maybe cause u set the 0 weapon and according to role and missions the code overrides the 0 and says hey wake up u can carry this weapon go and save me.
So we talk how it should be or how it is and what works 100%?
-
Of course the most simpliest (and too brutal) way is deleting non desired weapons from HP DB entries but this seriously restricts the game in TE too, therefore I do not like this way
Is it how it is Molni… and BMS is not FF (forget FF expirience - will just waste your time). As you are used to different “logic” from FF i can understand the contradicting logic now, but now…
“Hardpoint Data” is an active direct edit (defintion of pylons and weapons later visible (or not) in the payload screen).
“Squadron Stores” are dynamic virtual statistics only, with one initial definition in DB “squadron stores”.“Sqaudron Store” NULL-ing has NO impact on the payload screen results !!; but SSD still applies to the “HIGH”, “MED” and “LOW” inventory counter in the loadout screen.
As long as any weapon is available under “hardpoint data” on a “hardpoint” (or pylon), the sim always loads it with at least ONE weapon on that pylon (like a template), EVEN if SSD data for same weapon is NULL-ed.
You can NOT use SSD to define hardware specs on jets directly, nor is SSD supposed to be a “weapons-count-control-feature” directly on the vehicles (airframes). SSD is only for dynamic virtual STATS… so the sim understand how many weapons the SQUADRONS (on base A or base B) have …and how many will be re-supplied with the next Airlifts i.e. (filling up).I know, if SSD is 0 for weapon type X, then it should not laod it at all, but the code always laods ONE (template) for every available !!! weapon on a hardpoints, as the weapons are linked (attached) to the hardpoints first and do not consider the value in SSD. I agree, the code should only add a weapon to a hardpoint, IF SSD is NOT 0, but that is not the case atm (maybe a fix for 4.33 if possible?)
Look, “squadron store” (as the name says) is for THE WHOLE SQUADRON (like a virtual ammunition depot), but NOT for the definition of what weapons ARE or CAN BE loaded individually on each plane.
Weapons, you don´t wish to have in theater A or B…you need to “kick out” on desired vehicles. Problem is… when you use ONLY ONE database for multiple theaters (1980´and 2010´)… then you need to use different planes instead, with different defintions. I understand the conflict here, completly. Also the limitations with the TE expirience.
I also know, that you would love to preserve all weapons (hardpoints) and just limit (or NULL) their numbers by SSD data, but that is not possible atm, because as long a “weapons-entry” is available, the code automatically assigns ONE weapon of that kind in the payload screen to the pylon - even if not available in SSD at all. Why they made it so…i am not sure… i only can imagine it codewise why.Personally i understood very quickly, that making a “multipurpose-theater” with all options available and making at the same time a “specific theater” with more specific defined structuring (80´i.e) is almost not achieveable using one and the same DB - UNLESS different vehicle-sub-categories from one and the same DB are used in theater A and theater B. Then IT IS possible to use ONE DB with category A vehicles for theater A and category B vehicles for theater B. You can easily create (copy paste) new entities. For example F-16-52(80´) and F-16-52(modern) in your DB… same jet… just different “hardpoints” … one category for theater A (80´)…the other for theater B (modern) - and maybe one category C with ALL weapons available for TEs.
It is just a question of how YOU approach or design the whole thing. In other words… you need to find your own best compromises here how you create your individual squadrons, vehicles etc. etc. and theaters. Molni-theaters are more specific and are not “multi-” or “all purpose” KTO theaters
PS: Creating sub-categories for vehicles in one and the same DB is something we talked about before afair… like for SAMs: Sa-X (mobile) and same SAM Sa-X (non mobile). Same principle applies for different theaters of different time-eras with only one DB available. I only use one set in Redflag (only one theater), but Mystic for example has “old style BFS” and “modern BFS” … thus sub-categories of vehicles (if same airframe i.e is used in both). Just be carefull with shared “HP Usage” (weapons entry “Used By”). Different sub-categories of vehicles have to have different “Hardpoint Entries” in order not to use the same payloads - in other words if you create sub-categories for vehciles do the same for “Hardpoints” ( F-16-52 (harpoint 80)´… F-16-52 (hardpoint modern) )
…rest is up to your creativity
peace
-
As long as any weapon is available under “hardpoint data” on a “hardpoint” (or pylon), the sim always loads it with at least ONE weapon on that pylon (like a template), EVEN if SSD data for same weapon is NULL-ed.
This is simply not true. So far the point all of my post here was that most of weapons are not loaded if the value is 0 in SSD but are some exceptions. The problem that I was not able to find any pattern which weapons why and why on that AC…
-
This is simply not true.
It is for me.
Well… this is what i know from tests and observations and what i am able to proof by replications. I only hoped, that my feedback would help you as you are a dedicated theater maker (not many out there).
What exaclty goes wrong in your work and why it is “not true” for you i can´t tell tbh.
Molnibalage i am not able to re-produce what you are explaining here (the problem), nor do i know how well or how far you tested to get those results??!?.Just keep in mind, that i am not wasing alot of informative “ink” here in order to argue with you. Things work for us as we wish, thus it should for you too - well, that´s what i hope.
PS: I hope you are not using “Instant Action” for tests.
-
I’m jusing and tweak lots of AC what you never used.
First line AC do not suffer from this issue but Tornado, Jaguar and othe less frequently used AC more likels sufferend from this “0 SSD value but sometimes still available” issue. -
I’m jusing and tweak lots of AC what you never used.
Obviously your edits are based on your concept and are not of similar nature to mine as we had (have) different theaters and goals.
First line AC do not suffer from this issue but Tornado, Jaguar and other less frequently used AC more likely suffered from this “0 SSD value but sometimes still available” issue.
I just elaborated my “know-how” and that it works on my (our) end with the explanations of why and in the hope it will help you, but i am not able to help any longer regards your problem as you are “too confident for me” in the errors you obviously produced, nor do i have “insight” into your work to spot the problem on a workbench. Maybe my english is not the best, so you might need to read the whole thing with more “openness”, dunno.
Good luck in finding the problem.
-
I gave up finding the problem. Different kind of AC simply have very different behavior and I was not able to find any factor…
I release the theater. If is good I won’t restrict more if it is not I have to restrict more… -
Molny maybe cause u set the 0 weapon and according to role and missions the code overrides the 0 and says hey wake up u can carry this weapon go and save me.
So we talk how it should be or how it is and what works 100%?
In fact the opposite is the ture. Less used AC type somtimes do not get ANY strike weapons from ATO even many are available. Bigger problem that these AC take off the mission is not cancelled… Lots of AC can be tasked without ARM, they are simply eqipped by the second beast wepaon against unarmored AD units, they get in most of cases CBUs. This is why so different my campaign becase hordes of old J-5/J-6/Su-7/Q-5 can kill the blue AD while in stock BMS4 they just fly suicide and pointless missions.
-
Aaaaaahhhh, you are talking about the weapon selection criterias how and why the code uses weapon “A” or weapon “B” to arm the planes for mission-type A or B instead of using weapon “C” or weapons “D” for the same mission? This has been discussed to looong extent before on the BMS forums long time ago. Even Ed_1 contributed there afair, but it is still a “riddle”
I think there is NO SMART logic (code) here after all and therefore i specified (limited it) or structured the ATO by using or distributing the following wisely: the mission-types (aka DB roles), the hardpoints, the “squadron stores”, mission.dat and the .pri files. For example AI squadron X can do “db role” = CAP 100% (Barcap, Tarcap, Havcap, Escort), but can NOT do “db role” CAS = 0% (Preplaned CAS, On-Call CAS etc etc) at the same time. In other words each squadron has a limited number of mission types (same mission-type category) they can execute instead of being “multi-role” fighters, because
… “Multi-Role” just doesn´t work good enough in BMS in terms of smart weapons selection by AI.
I.e., if a plane-type has A2A-missiles and A2G-bombs (hardpoints) and “CAS” AND “CAP” roles assigned in the DB at the same time and then it is tasked as BARCAP by the ATM (ATO), it still takes bombs on a BARCAP mission, which is stuipid … vise versa. AI (or ATM if you will) is unable to choose weapons for specific missions with the same “smartness” as humans would do. They mostly load everything possible with the ones with the biggest “boom” first in the list, regardless if needed or not (i.e bombs for BARCAP).
The only solution here atm. is to “limit” or DEFINE aka SPECIFY the roles, mission-types and the accordingly required payloads (hardpoints) manually for each individual squadron and thus for the globally desired arming results for each individual mission-type.
In fact the opposite is the ture. Less used AC type somtimes do not get ANY strike weapons from ATO even many are available. Bigger problem that these AC take off the mission is not cancelled… Lots of AC can be tasked without ARM, they are simply eqipped by the second beast wepaon against unarmored AD units, they get in most of cases CBUs. This is why so different my campaign becase hordes of old J-5/J-6/Su-7/Q-5 can kill the blue AD while in stock BMS4 they just fly suicide and pointless missions.
PS: Molni… i have a strange feeling, that something is really “messed up” in your DB or you didn´t “UPDATE” and “RECALCULATE” the DB “from the bottom up” in order to maintain the integrity of the branched, edited and shared values throughout the the whole DB (weapons update, vehicles update, units update etc etc). Remember, if you change a weapons entry i.e, then you need to “update” all vehicles, then units using the same weapon or the DB looses its coherent intergrity and is not read properly anymore. This applies for all related (linked) DB entries such as “Hardpoints” or/and others.
-
Aaaaaahhhh, you are talking about the weapon selection criterias how and why the code uses weapon “A” or weapon “B” to arm the planes for mission-type A or B instead of using weapon “C” or weapons “D” for the same mission?
Besides the other issue yes, but this was not the main point of the previous comments.
PS: Molni… i have a strange feeling, that something is really “messed up” in your DB or you didn´t “UPDATE” and “RECALCULATE” the DB “from the bottom up” in order to maintain the integrity of the branched, edited and shared values throughout the the whole DB (weapons update, vehicles update, units update etc etc). Remember, if you change a weapons entry i.e, then you need to “update” all vehicles, then units using the same weapon or the DB looses its coherent intergrity and is not read properly anymore. This applies for all related (linked) DB entries such as “Hardpoints” or/and others.
Of course I updated everytime and recalculate everytime, these are the first step what ever have to be learned for start just even basic tweaks. As I have said, first line and most commonly used AC - F-15, F-16, F-18 - do not suffer about “tasked on strike mission without AG weapon” while they also got role and loadout changes in some cases.
This is why I’m saying continously that in Falcon world are other AC too. The campaigns are not “one man show” things, “actors” in less attractive positions also deserve attention… This is what so strongly missing currently… I did the best what I could but I’m not magician.
-
@A.S:
I think there is NO SMART logic (code) here after all …
Code is probably much smarter than you guys assume.
-
Code is probably much smarter than you guys assume.
I am sure it is. It is actually even quiete amazing sometimes how “smart” this sim was made, but regards to how the AI decides to load what kind of weapons for various mission-types
(and that is what i refered to), the code is as dumb as a “donkey”. Or can you proof the contrary? -
@A.S:
I am sure it is. It is actually even quiete amazing sometimes how “smart” this sim was made, but regards to how the AI decides to load what kind of weapons for various mission-types
(and that is what i refered to), the code is as dumb as a “donkey”. Or can you proof the contrary?Wait and see.
BTW if you can specify “dumb as a donkey” exactly maybe this can be further improved…Cheers
Biker -
Wait and see.
BTW if you can specify “dumb as a donkey” exactly maybe this can be further improved…Cheers
BikerI will try…
Preface:
Diffucult… as i´ve only created variatons in the database and from there test-campaigns or -TEs in order to get an idea myself what “logic” is used by comparing the results.
Worse, i don´t see the code to be more helpfull. For us “modders” or theater builders almost everything are experimental confirmations by testings due to “no insight” in the code.
I am not sure if you built campaigns, so you have had those expiriences on your own aswell, but if it helps you, i can share some extented observations and thoughts via PM with you.
From there on you can then track it down on your own in the code and look “under the hood” - so to speak - if improvements of any kind are do-able.Anyways… (let´s approach it this way):
for starters… and to give you a quick test-bed; just create one multirole fighter of your own choice in the database (F-15E or Tornade GR4 i.e and allow multiple “roles scores” for them in DB)… then give them a variation of hardpoints and weapons (if they don´t have them already)…and then go in a TE and create WITH THAT PLANE a BARCAP, then a CAS, then a Brigde STRIKE… or a factory STRIKE mission…or a SEAD mission …etc etc…(play and experiment around here) and then just observe what weapons the AI chooses (auto-loads) for those mission types you assigned them to. While recognizing code behaviour patterns in the AI-payload-results it will give you very quickly an idea if there is a “smart” logic or just a “dumb donkey” mechanism behind it. This might also help you to conclude the situation from your own more in-depth expertise point of view. Once all that done… you pretty much will get an idea …and maybe from there you can find better solutions inside the code for it??? Long story short…before me trying to explain you everything, while getting lost in translation, it´s better (and quicker) that you “get your hands dirty” by replicating THIS and see it for yourself from the pesky theater-builders point of view :mrgreen:. This way you get a MUCH better idea for improvements, than just someone else (me) telling you stories about “eşeks” :rofl:
PS: While doing, you might also want to make sure, that the weapons intented for your test-plane(s) are available in the “squadron stores” aswell…and also please play around with the “rareity values” of the weapons (which till today is not very clear to me, what effect that “rareity” value has tbh. and if you would help me understand what the code does with “rareity” value for weapons i would really appreciate that - thanks in advance).
Cheers
A.S -
Hey guys,
This is simply not true. So far the point all of my post here was that most of weapons are not loaded if the value is 0 in SSD but are some exceptions. The problem that I was not able to find any pattern which weapons why and why on that AC…
this is by design…
Dunno when was introduced, but if no weapon can be found in squadron stores (all weapons of this type are at zero) code will pick the weapon which has lowest score for the given situation (plus some randomness).
Cheers
Biker -
Hey guys,
this is by design…
Dunno when was introduced, but if no weapon can be found in squadron stores (all weapons of this type are at zero) code will pick the weapon which has lowest score for the given situation (plus some randomness).
Cheers
BikerJeez M8, did you not write this some years ago???
// RV - Biker - Some more loadout flags
#define WEAP_DEAD_LOADOUT 0x20000 // Give long range weapons higher prio
#define WEAP_LASER_POD 0x40000 // Used to load laser pods on HPs
#define WEAP_FAC_LOADOUT 0x80000 // Load Willy Pete rockets only
#define WEAP_CHAFF_POD 0x100000 // Load Chaff Flare dispenser podsLOL!!! Just poking at U, no harm intended……
Biker is somewhat right here. Falcon, for Joe Pilot, will assign weapons to you @ hardcoded default (without chasing it I think there are 9) if there is no other data available, as well for the AI. Where we stray in our opinions is that Falcon, IMObservation, will always give you “Joe Pilot” the best available weapon from that Hardcoded Table for your mission.
Suffice it to say that, as far as she is concerned “Joe Pilot” FlysAlways"……
Cheers,
Demer