Instrument landing system localizer off?
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Remember that Tacan approaches are NON-presicion and not intended to be aligned. Actually that they are always so co located withthe field itself is unusual compared to rl.
Remember to set in both loc frq and final course in the T-ILS page ln your icp/ded. And switch mode switch to tcn/ils mode on your center console.
And yes Ive been able to fly heads down just looking on the center console on the cross, vvi and att and alt and land on the rwy using ils in bms.
So it is possible to land “blind”. -
…. Osan tower is there wen you take off on runway 32, which is great apart from its supposed to be runway 27, then when returning to it youll find the tower has moved while you were away and tells you as you fly toward the runway “Your out of my airspace, call back when your 30 miles out”
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Just out of curiosity has anyone actually found Osan by tower calls?
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?20016-Osan-s-tower-controller-needs-retiring
You’ve asked and been answered with regard to Osan previously. The problem is not Osan or BMS, but you or your modifications.
Same with ILS. Works perfectly if you use it correctly. Watch the vids above to learn …. and this one, if you’d like, to see the result:
You setup and fly properly and you land exactly where you’re supposed to.
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I noticed no one else seems to have had this problem but upon landing and intercepting of the glide slope and localizer, the localizer never seems to be aligned with the appropriate runway, I was wondering if this is a common problem or just with me?
Might help: C:\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Airport Approach & Navigation Charts
This document is a summary of all the airbases: C:\Falcon BMS 4.32\Docs\Airport Approach & Navigation Charts\Korean Volume BMS 1002.pdf
It’s important to note that not all runways have localizers in both directions OR if dual runway, for both runways. For instance at Kimpo, you have localizers on both runways and in both directions:
@Kimpo:
109.9 (14L)
110.1 (14R)
108.3 (32L)
110.7 (32R)However, for example, at Seosan, just one:
@Seosan:
111.5 (02R)
Kunsan, 1 runway, both directions:
@Kunsan:
110.3 (18&36)
Same for Osan:
@Osan:
111.3 (09&27)
Also important to note is the exact heading of the Localizer. For instance at Kunsan, it is NOT 180* and 360*. It’s 176* and 356* because that is the actual runway heading.
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The pilot model made by Harpoon is very useful. It contain the informations about head navigations, frequences etc.
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all ILS work in ‘default’ Korea I test them often enough when I update the charts
as said above, use the charts and the tables and you’ll be fineRwy32 for Osan?
=> Wild modding
Most campaign airstrips do it as well. So yes the TACAN and ILS are off on a lot of runways
airstrip don’t have tacan or ILS
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Sorry for the delay in getting back guys, the name of the airbase is seosan, the runway frequency is 111.5 and the runway in question is runway 200, I have flown military and sim aircraft for years ( FSX ) so I have a thorough understanding of navigation and navaids along with the HSI, that is why I was suprised that the localizer does not seem to align with the runway with all the information entered, what I am going to do is go thru each piece of advice listed in the messages recieved and see if there is something I am over looking and I will post any thing that I may be doing in error so others may view and learn from it……thanks guys!
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only Rwy 20R has an ILS
so if you’re trying to follow the ILS for RWY20L, it will be off as it’s meant to be on 20R
that’s the only ILS for Seosan, all other runways are tacan non precision approaches -
you know, it might help to put the nav mode switch to the ILS position, this is what I have found that I was not doing, otherwise the ILS works just fine, just wanted to post this just in case anyone else makes the same mistake.
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“put the nav mode switch to the ILS position, this is what I have found that I was not doing”
I’m really baffled here… seems to me… you don’t even see the localizer and GS bars in the HUD till you move that switch??
What aircraft did you fly in the Military? -
Yes, that is true, the nav mode switch must be placed to the nav ILS position in order to bring up the glideslope and localizer, if it is for instance left in the tacan position the aircraft radio will be tuned to recieve signals from tacan stations be they air or ground and the glide slope bars will not display therefore causing the pilot to do what is called a non precision approach, I have never flown an aircraft in the military I am just familiar with how the navigational system operates on an aircraft.
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You can also switch the “Instr Mode” knob to the ILS/TCN and have indications of the LOC and GS! The difference between ILS/TCN and ILS/NAV is the infos about the navigation aid at HSI (bearing/DME), means if you will have infos for a TACAN station or for a GPS waypoint (steerpoint). But the functionality of your ILS is exactly the same at ILS/TCN and ILS/NAV ;).
Nikos. -
Well… glad to see you have it sorted…
I was a Tacan Technician (ground side) in the Marines… so have a special interest in that field. Also worked on Ground Controlled Approach radar systems, so after many years of seeing the view from an ATC controller as he/she guided a pilot down the cone, its a joy to experience the aircraft side of things, so I spend alot of time setting up ILS approaches… just for the fun of itEdit
Thanks for that neystratiou… will definitively play with both of those settings… -
I like the ILS/NAV better than ILS/TCN when doing heads down ILS approach. You have the setup a STPT on the runway. The HSI shows wind correction angle and range to runway. The heads down ILS LOC is a bitch in a crosswind. But you should cross reference the two displays.
Is substituting the HSI for the for the heads down ILS LOC “one of my funny tricks” or is a realistic procedure?
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I think you have a term mixup. HSI is the heads down instrument on the center pedestal between your knees.
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I’m using the ILS bars in the ADI and the HSI together.
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I like the ILS/NAV better than ILS/TCN when doing heads down ILS approach.
Once agin, for ppl who wants to do like IRL, do not follow Caper’s procedure (sorry Caper, but I have to say it).
Because published procedures are based on TACAN distance which are used for minimas, MAPT, and glideslope validation.Using a custom steerpoint is illegal, and dangerous.
(I see you guys comming with TwoDog using this to land on a runway non equiped with radio nav approach proc. Again, there is a difference between regular/standard use and extreme situations where the pilot made a mistake (or really really unlucky) and have no other choice than doing this to land.)
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Once agin, for ppl who wants to do like IRL, do not follow Caper’s procedure (sorry Caper, but I have to say it).
Because published procedures are based on TACAN distance which are used for minimas, MAPT, and glideslope validation.Using a custom steerpoint is illegal, and dangerous.
(I see you guys comming with TwoDog using this to land on a runway non equiped with radio nav approach proc. Again, there is a difference between regular/standard use and extreme situations where the pilot made a mistake (or really really unlucky) and have no other choice than doing this to land.)
Have you ever diverted to a airstrip (out of fuel or deadstick). Looked up the airstrips GPS location, setup a STPT, set the HSI course to the runway heading and intercept the radial for a HSI asset approach. I’ve done this for deadstick landings in campaigns.
There’s a book about a r/l pilot that sets up a STPT and uses like a ILS approach.
It real easy to overcorrect using the ADI ILS bars using the HSI helps and I did say to cross reference.
I’m talk’n combat. There is a combat element in BMS.
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Have you ever diverted to a airstrip (out of fuel or deadstick). Looked up the airstrips GPS location, setup a STPT, set the HSI course to the runway heading and intercept the radial for a HSI asset approach. I’ve done this for deadstick landings in campaigns.
There’s a book about a r/l pilot that sets up a STPT and uses like a ILS approach.
You still don’t understand caper
If you have to divert, you have to chose your divert field according to the weather. If TAF are announcing bad weather, you will have to plan an IFR field where Instruments procedures exists and where all the related radionav systems are operational (see NOTAMs).
If conditions are VMC, you can go on an VFR field …This is called flight planning, flight management … And all are dicted by flight rules.
No way you have the right to do what you are saying except in case of GPS/GNSS that charts are officially published (which is the same as other IFR chart but using GPS fixes … But is not safe for single pilot operation because there is no crosscheck of the coordinates programmed on the system, can even be not authorised depending on countries.)
The book you are mentioning is the one I’ve mentioned above (TwoDogs, Viper Driver) and has no other choices because of a “bad” flight management.
Another point, what is no said in the book is what he has used for glide slope!?!
What he did is not a pseudo ILS, but a pseudo TACAN approache whith alt checks based on distances … Any cases, this was illegal and dangerous (no way for him to know what are the actual obstacles clearance during his final) … But had no other choices. -
Another point, what is no said in the book is what he has used for glide slope!?!
What he did is not a pseudo ILS, but a pseudo TACAN approaches whith alt check based on distances …that makes no sense.
Anycases, this was illegal and dangerous (no way for him to know what are the actual obstacles clearance during his final) … But had no other choices.
I said to use it for a reference. I know it’s illegal. My old boss petition the FAA change the ruling for rotorwing. The FAA didn’t want to have two different set of rules for fixwing and rotorwing.
Anyway I guess I got the answer. -
that makes no sense.
In the book, he flew an approach down to a markpoint he had made (so all the problems with EGI accuracy aside, it was already going to be subject to a bit of steering error). He flew that blind down to past minima if I recall correctly. He then directed a bunch of other pilots to land on that markpoints coordinates, acting as though there was glideslope guidance as you get from ILS - but as there was no ILS at the field, this was basically the same as a TACAN approach (non precision) but from a markpoint instead of a real TACAN station. Hence DeeJay calling it a pseudo TACAN approach.
Its not safe, and unless your alternatives are less safe, you shouldnt do it.
You might also want to read the next chapter Caper, where he got discharged from the air force while he was sleeping after landing. (He got reinstated before he woke up, too…)