Rudder pedals in mid air
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Ok, I’ll ask again some RL pilots about this. Maybe the info was not entirely correct…
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Id also check out the flight model articles, here:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/content.php?45-documentation
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I just heard a couple of days ago that as soon as you takeoff, there’s no use in the rudder pedals anymore.
In fact, you can press the pedals but nothing will move on the tail…
This is what happens on a real f16.
I guess that its movement is controlled by the FLCS and the system compensates for rudder according to flight maneuver needs.If it is true, why is it modeled to move in BMS?
It’s true that the FLCS will fly the rudder while in flight. Angle of Sideslip sensors tell the FLCS to move the rudder. The ARI helps corrects for sideslip during roll functions. However, there are areas in the performance envelope where pilot rudder input is available.
Is there any truth to that claim or maybe it depends on the aircraft block?
The earlier blocks had larger vertical fin. It could be different. Need to check an “A” model -1.
If it is true, why is it modeled to move in BMS?
It looks like the AFM does model pilot’s rudder inputs limits. Make sure you select “advance” FLIGHT MODEL in the setup menu.
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… what can’t be modeled by the soft is the rudder pedals hardness making “very hard” a full deflection of the pedals.
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Cheetah, you wanna test this out, hop in the jet, and climb to above 10,000 feet after takeoff. Then slow to 250 knots, apply MIL power, and put the nose up to 30 degrees. When your AoA reaches 25 degrees, go to an outside view of the jet, and try to move the rudder around.
Then execute your HARTS maneuver before reaching 150 knots.
EDIT: better option again is to do an AoA limiter demonstration, which is basically the same thing, but trying to do rolls and yaws at 6 degrees AoA, then 15 degrees, then 25, rather than skipping to 25.
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Cheetah, you wanna test this out, hop in the jet, and climb to above 10,000 feet after takeoff. Then slow to 250 knots, apply MIL power, and put the nose up to 30 degrees. When your AoA reaches 25 degrees, go to an outside view of the jet, and try to move the rudder around.
Then execute your HARTS maneuver before reaching 150 knots.
Ok, I’ll try it out today [emoji41]
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The earlier blocks had larger vertical fin. It could be different. Need to check an “A” model -1.
I think all model of the F-16 have the same size tail, the base of the vertical tail is different on blocks 25 and above, it is wider.
@Dee-Jay:… what can’t be modeled by the soft is the rudder pedals hardness making “very hard” a full deflection of the pedals.
I’m not pilot, but I don’t remember the pedal being excessively heavy to move to max. Granted, only done it on the ground while testing nose wheel steering.
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Modelization of rudder is 100% accurate
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I think all model of the F-16 have the same size tail, the base of the vertical tail is different on blocks 25 and above, it is wider.
I’m sure you are right. The larger fin was needed for targeting pods.
… what can’t be modeled by the soft is the rudder pedals hardness making “very hard” a full deflection of the pedals.
I’m not pilot, but I don’t remember the pedal being excessively heavy to move to max. Granted, only done it on the ground while testing nose wheel steering.
The F-16 is fly-by-wire. Pedal resistance should be easy to model. hmmm, is there force feedback in r/l f-16 pedals……
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The F-16 is fly-by-wire. Pedal resistance should be easy to model. hmmm, is there force feedback in r/l f-16 pedals……
No force feedback … but set of springs or hydraulic stiffener …
Amraam who tried the RL simulator told me about a big resistance in the pedals.
I’m not pilot, but I don’t remember the pedal being excessively heavy to move to max. Granted, only done it on the ground while testing nose wheel steering.
When I say “very hard” I mean heavier than most of ppl here certainly imagine. (like the 25lbs for the FLCS)
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I’m sure you are right. The larger fin was needed for targeting pods.
No that I know of, just more equipment house on the base of the rudder.
No force feedback … but set of springs or hydraulic stiffener …
My memory is never been great, but I think the artificial feel cartridge for the rudder is this one
IIRC, it’s just a spring. The ones on top are for the brake. Many hours with my head down there looking for something a pilot drop.
Anayway, BMS got me spoiled and I can do a coordinated turn worth a dam in other sims.
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Thank you mvgas.
BTW, many ppl seems to confuse “artificial feel” (made for making the command stiffer which the speed increasing) and “force feed back” like we have on some joystick … Am I right?
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I think all model of the F-16 have the same size tail, the base of the vertical tail is different on blocks 25 and above.
Early blocks had a smaller triangular stabilator. Area was increased to what we now have.
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Thank you mvgas.
BTW, many ppl seems to confuse “artificial feel” (made for making the command stiffer which the speed increasing) and “force feed back” like we have on some joystick … Am I right?
I have never used a “force feed” back joy stick so not sure how it feels. On the F-16, IIRC, is like a spring, the more you extend, the harder or stronger it feels. So at max defection of the pedals the pressure is harder that when moving it just a bit. This only applies to the pedals since the joystick in the F-16 always feels about the same and to me it moves so little it is hard to discern any difference. I hope i explain that eloquently enough.
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Early blocks had a smaller triangular stabilator. Area was increased to what we now have.
Was the tail longer? I ask because the little I know all F-16 are about the same height, so the tail should not be taller. I know the Stabs or horizontal tail was bigger.
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http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=23
The transition from Block 10 to Block 15 resulted in two hardpoints added to the inlet chin and designated as stations 5R and 5L. The nearly thirty percent larger horizontal tail is the most noticeable difference between Block 15 and previous F-16 versions. The larger tail offset the shift in center of gravity brought on by the weight of the sensors and structures of the two chin hardpoints. The larger tail also provides better stability and control authority, especially at higher angles of attack.
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That is referring to the Horizontal tail or the Stabs, not the vertical tail/ The rudder.
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block 40/42
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I have not been able to find the F-16A ( block 10 to 20) vertical tail area. It does appear the block 40 and above are about 1 1/2 inches taller but it does have a larger Landing gear. Regardless, AFAIK, rudder utilization in flight and its authority is the same.
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Thanks for the info and corrections Gas. I thought there was references to vertical fin changes.
I still would want to research the early blocks -1. I don’t think the older FLCS has AOS (angle of sideslip) sensors. It may of used internal sensors.