Player Bubble and Deaggregation
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I have some questions about these two systems (and how they interact).
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Is the player bubble side agnostic?
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What is the range on the ‘player bubble’? (I have heard 30 NM but no idea if that is right)
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What are the situations that will cause deaggregation?
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Is deaggration separate from the Player Bubble?
I have more, but we’ll see if anyone can answer these first because I am sure if there are good answers there will be branching questions.
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Some info can be found in the RP (Realism patch) manual in the docs folder.
- range to object and maybe additional spotlight: radar cursor (A/G) (TGP ?) but I really am only guessing
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- Is the player bubble side agnostic?
Interesting question, can we prove the existence of a Falcon4 god ?
Lets look at the Prophet BMS and it scriptural writings in the Dash-1 text recovered from an ancient HD found in a cave in ……
Some old tellers speak in hushed tone about a “Three Ringed Binder” though now none exist for the new converts too Falconism …
Sorry I got carried away…:uham:
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I have some questions about these two systems (and how they interact).
- Is the player bubble side agnostic?
I dont understand that question.
- What is the range on the ‘player bubble’? (I have heard 30 NM but no idea if that is right)
- Is deaggration separate from the Player Bubble?
2. That depends on the target / object type.
4. Deaggregation is not separate from player bubble, but deaggregation distance defines the player bubble:
“Deggregation” means, a virtual entity used in statistical combat is actually de-aggragated into individual objects / vehicles / aircraft that are simulated each on it’s own.
Aggregation is the opposite - individual objects are not longer simulated individually, but aggregated to one virtual entity to be used in statistical combat.This is done to be able to simulate the happenings across the virtual battlefield without having to simulate the AI and the physics (hitboxes, physics, trajectories….) of each of the hundreds of vehicles, aircrafts, rockets and bombs involved in the theater.
- What are the situations that will cause deaggregation?
Mainly deaggregation happens when a virtual entity comes into proximity of a human player: that is closing below “deaggregation distance”.
Hence it is also being called “entering the players bubble”. So deaggregation distance directly defines the so called “player bubble”: Whats inside it becomes deaggregated, whats outside it is aggregated.But it’s a little more complicated than that. The “deaggregation distance”, as such the bubble size, is no single value, but depends on the type of entity. For aircraft, the deaggregation distance (therefore bubble size) is different as for SAM units and so on.
That is why you also can think it the other way around: Don’t imagine a bubble around the player, but individual bubbles around all the different entities. Their bubble sizes vary according to entity type and it’s actually the player entering an entities bubble (closing below deagg-distance) causing it to deaggregate.
Additionally -as mentioned in the post before- various sensors such as the radar cursors also cause a virtual entity to deaggregate even if it is beyond deaggregation distance. I remember that of being important when using stand-off weapons, to keep the target deaggregated until impact by keeping the radar cursors on target.
I am no Falcon developer and it’s been quite a while since I read the VU documentation, so just writing out of my head. Hope it clears things up a bit, but since I am not into the code, the info may not be 100% accurate.
Greets
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Note WPN as per Maverick causes deagg, TGP doesn’t.
The issue is known.
Please correct if need be, from memory.
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Nice post Hornet.
It is a complex subject and for many mystifying.
In the old days we had a App called F4Bubble, still have a copy but don’t think it will work now.
Actually might even load up ……
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Interesting question, can we prove the existence of a Falcon4 god ?
Lets look at the Prophet BMS and it scriptural writings in the Dash-1 text recovered from an ancient HD found in a cave in ……
Some old tellers speak in hushed tone about a “Three Ringed Binder” though now none exist for the new converts too Falconism …
Sorry I got carried away…:uham:
EPIC!
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TGP does; it is a feature in one of the later (5 or 6?) “U” patches to BMS4.32. It’s one of the most useful deagg-ers there is. From my reading the FCR GM/GMT cursor is supposed to (1nm radius) as well but it doesn’t seem to for me.
When you say “player bubble” do you mean the bubble or the bubble setting slider in options? Because the slider is a multiplier and only works well on the max (6?) setting.
Everything has a bubble and so there are 4 cases if A and B bubbles are different sizes. A and B are both outside each other, B inside A but A not inside B, A inside B but B not inside A, both inside each other’s.
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Hi
- Is the player bubble side agnostic?
Sorry but I (also) don’t understand the question.
- What is the range on the ‘player bubble’? (I have heard 30 NM but no idea if that is right)
- What are the situations that will cause deaggregation?
- Is deaggration separate from the Player Bubble?
See what Hornet posted, it’s pretty accurate.
1 thing that I wanted to add (and which was already mentioned as well on this thread) is the thing of the temporary bubbles. Temp bubbles are a kind of a “trick” to keep some area deaggregated even if it shouldn’t be according to the deaggregation distance of the objects. This method is currently working for:
Maverick eye (i.e Maverick locking position).
HARM target position (when still on the AC)
TGP target position (and NOT as posted above, TGP does deaggregate since 4.32 Update 5 or so…)
The player’s wingman and flight members get a temp bubble for some time on the target area when the player is initiating some AG attack targets commandsThere are some issues with the current methods (example a deaggregated AI flight attacking an aggregated ground targets will result in the weapons falling of empty ground…) but in the next version there will be some changes that will solve much of this issues, by using temp bubbles.
TGP does; it is a feature in one of the later (5 or 6?) “U” patches to BMS4.32. It’s one of the most useful deagg-ers there is. From my reading the FCR GM/GMT cursor is supposed to (1nm radius) as well but it doesn’t seem to for me.
Correct TGP does. In fact it should have been doing that since ever (i.e since the Maverick/HARM deaggregation exists…) but the code that was suppose to do that was simply using wrong position for where the TGP is looking, the result was that the TGP bubble was working but the position was AFU :mrgreen:
GM radar never had code to make it deaggregated, I think in AF maybe they did it… but don’t worry, that is taking care of as well.
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Rock on! It sucks to have a BN spring into existence <10nm in front of you or have a wingman churn up dirt around an agg’d target for a miss. So happy.
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Okay, GREAT ANSWERS! So no hard information about ranges…I will look for the slider in the options menu to see what I can do with that.
Some clarification about the Side Agnostic question - I thought about this some more and now I’m wondering if this is less about player side and more about multiplayer setup.
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So, if I have a (player) red force jet flying over an island, will it de-agg blue force units on the island?
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If it does, will that change propagate to all users connected to the game?
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If the Red Force player is a client, and the other pilots are all clients, will they also de-aggregate?
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3 is interesting, in a PvP environment with 30+ players flying, at moments there must be many units in 3d?
With today’s computers, having a dedicated server, has the bubble played its roll? -
Players are not impacted by the deaggregation thing (I mean there is no agg/deagg between players), only IA units (air and ground) and objectives can be deaggregated and aggregated by the players. The player flight ship is always saw like a single ship (each player has its own bubble) and by definition : player can’t be agg or deagg
BB
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3 is interesting, in a PvP environment with 30+ players flying, at moments there must be many units in 3d?
With today’s computers, having a dedicated server, has the bubble played its roll?By default, the host is controlling every IA units and objectives deaggregated by each players connected (“Hosts all units” option ON by default)
BB
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@Bad:
Players are not impacted by the deaggregation thing (I mean there is no agg/deagg between players), only IA units (air and ground) and objectives can be deaggregated and aggregated by the players. The player flight ship is always saw like a single ship (each player has its own bubble) and by definition : player can’t be agg or deagg
BB
Sorry, let me clarify again:
If Player A deaggregates a unit either via bubble or via something direct (like TGP) will the deaggregation apply to all pilots?
And
How does this situation change if they are playing on a dedicated server vs a client/host setup?
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Sorry, let me clarify again:
If Player A deaggregates a unit either via bubble or via something direct (like TGP) will the deaggregation apply to all pilots?
And
How does this situation change if they are playing on a dedicated server vs a client/host setup?
A) Yes, deaggregated for all players (pilots) but controlled by the host (Pilot host or dedicated server)
B) No difference in the “way” to host a MP game : a “pilot who is hosting” or a “dedicated server who is hosting” is always controlling all the units/objectives deaggregated by each pilots (so a dedicated server will have always better performance because by definition it should be a powerful computer with a very big bandwidth capability)
BB
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Side note : the host should always be in 3D (no matter if it is a pilot who is flying or if it is what we call a dedicated server)
BB
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Okay.
So if I’m working in the Aegean theater, I can put the dedicated host in 3D Mode on the island of Lemnos, on the Turkish faction, and it will force deaggregation of all the units on Lemnos, even for Greek Pilots who fly over the island.
No one knows what the bubble range is, though?
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From memory its or used to be:
10nm for ground units.
30nm for air units.
20nm for Navel ??
Maybe 6nm around your GM/GMT radar cursors.
Sams exist in a bubble of their own determination (sorry forget the finer details) Allows for long range shots between player & Sam.
Air and Ground Bubbles can be shared between players.Go search read the manual……Cheers
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Okay.
So if I’m working in the Aegean theater, I can put the dedicated host in 3D Mode on the island of Lemnos, on the Turkish faction, and it will force deaggregation of all the units on Lemnos, even for Greek Pilots who fly over the island.
No one knows what the bubble range is, though?
You dont understand any player whatever their cam is deaggregating the units or objectives as soons as the pkayer enters their bubble.
A player can not “see” a aggregated unit , by definition it should always see deagged units no matter camp/client/terraon owner