F-16 cannon
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As a pilot in BMS, would it matter? If you press and let go of the trigger 10 time it could leave you 70 round, but we don’t have enough round to press the trigger 10 time using correct procedures
Well, its very easy to fire 10 bursts in Falcon. Its not tactically useful, but you can do it.
Another question I feel is relevant is whether the weight of ammunition is counted for aircraft performance? Does the aircraft get lighter in Falcon after firing cannon rounds?
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is the barrel clearing also modelled? After the trigger is released, up to 7 rounds cycle through the barrels without firing voltage being applied, and cannot be used in that flight.
Another question I feel is relevant is whether the weight of ammunition is counted for aircraft performance? Does the aircraft get lighter in Falcon after firing cannon rounds?
don’t you guys go over a bit over the “reasonnable” line gents
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1 PGU-28 is about 100g each
510 rounds accounds for 51 Kg of total weight. probably half the weight of the equipped pilot
Does that makes much on aircraft performances …?
especially considering that’s the cannon is also very close to the CG?how about being a little tiny bit more realistic than that
Or shall we also model AI pilot performance according to the fact that’s he’s been dumped by his girlfriend the night before
it’s well know that AI pilot in BMS have all been dumped the night before -
Well, its very easy to fire 10 bursts in Falcon. Its not tactically useful, but you can do it.
Another question I feel is relevant is whether the weight of ammunition is counted for aircraft performance? Does the aircraft get lighter in Falcon after firing cannon rounds?
Gun ammo has 0 weight in DB. I can test what happens if you increase the weight but I guess you cannot set well the weight. The smallest increment is 1 lbs and in DB you define the ammo qty. with x10 multiplier. It is also possible that cod simply does not use the weight data of gun ammo.
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@Red:
don’t you guys go over a bit over the “reasonnable” line gents
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1 PGU-28 is about 100g each
510 rounds accounds for 51 Kg of total weight. probably half the weight of the equipped pilot
Does that makes much on aircraft performances …?
especially considering that’s the cannon is also very close to the CG?how about being a little tiny bit more realistic than that
Or shall we also model AI pilot performance according to the fact that’s he’s been dumped by his girlfriend the night before
it’s well know that AI pilot in BMS have all been dumped the night beforeIm no expert on artificial intelligence modeling, Red Dog, but Im a big fan of as realistic a flight modeling as is possible. If there was a way to simulate individual air packets in the sim for more realistic complex flow situations, and have more than 1 frame per second, then I would be a proponent of that.
Ill trust your team to model the AI as you see fit, though.
Is there any aerodynamic difference between the M56 and PGU28 ammunition?
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Im no expert on artificial intelligence modeling, Red Dog, but Im a big fan of as realistic a flight modeling as is possible.
The as possible sometimes mean so much workhour which does not worth to make it. In my the “as possible” aspect is always should be coupled with “within reasonable efforts” aspect. It is pointless to waste lost of effors or any which likely does not have any or so small imopact on gameplay and tactical situations.
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Im no expert on artificial intelligence modeling, Red Dog, but Im a big fan of as realistic a flight modeling as is possible. If there was a way to simulate individual air packets in the sim for more realistic complex flow situations, and have more than 1 frame per second, then I would be a proponent of that.
Ill trust your team to model the AI as you see fit, though.
Is there any aerodynamic difference between the M56 and PGU28 ammunition?
If you are really interested: -
Article on new ammo use
PDF file on old ammo
PDF file on new ammoThe long and short of it is the PGU28 ammo has a better ballistic profile, higher impact energy and better reliability.
Not that any of that would make any difference in BMS as it stands now of most likely in the future.
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That is a good question, to which I dont have the answer. My guess would be no.
Some previous discussion here: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?17640-M61-A1-Cannon-System
@Red:
…. it’s well know that AI pilot in BMS have all been dumped the night before
No kidding?!?!?! Well, that explains a LOT. Thanks RD.
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Do you mean that 10 bullets goes out of the cannon in one shot?
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Another question in relation to the gun: if I’m not mistaken, the DB contains different types of aircraft guns. Do these have different properties which are noticeable ingame?
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@fad:
Do you mean that 10 bullets goes out of the cannon in one shot?
The quantity of ammunition expended depends on the length of the burst. I do believe the M61 is reasonably well modelled that if you are quick you could get less than 10 rds in a burst (that’s 1/100th of a second ignoring spin-up time).
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The quantity of ammunition expended depends on the length of the burst. I do believe the M61 is reasonably well modelled that if you are quick you could get less than 10 rds in a burst (that’s 1/100th of a second ignoring spin-up time).
and seeing as according to the thread linked above, BMS does ignore spin up time, its just a 1/100th of a second - except that at 6000 rounds a minute it would be 100 a second, so getting 10 rounds in a burst would just be a 10th of a second.
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@fad:
Do you mean that 10 bullets goes out of the cannon in one shot?
For my part, no that is not what I meant. The initial response was simply how the counter show rounds remaining. Since it’s rounded to the nearest ten, it obviously cannot be exact.
Like the RPM gauge in your car. When the needle points at 5.5, you don’t really think your engine is turning 5 and 1/2 times per minute, do you? No, it’s 5.5 (x1000) …. 5500 revs per minute. Gun rounds shown in the SMS page, same idea. No need to make simple stuff complicated.
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But surly it will be a great fun to be a smart@ss bms fan trolling the DCS forums with that feature.
lol
Im sold. We need this feature now XD
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hehe guys, lets make a Pre Ramp Start Menu where you can select what you ate and drunk in the last few days and how many times you were on the toilet and what consistency… naah… I won’t continue^^
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@fad:
Do you mean that 10 bullets goes out of the cannon in one shot?
You have to remember the M61 has a firing rate of 6000 rounds per minute, or 100 rounds per second. It would be extremely difficult for anyone (except maybe Chuck) to fire them off one at a time. You also have to take into account spooling losses - several rounds are lost unfired every time you pull the trigger.
BTW, Chuck doesn’t use the cannon, he just spits the rounds at the enemy fighters out from his mouth.
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loss of weight from bullets is not modeled in the FM as it has neglictible influence.
HOWEVER the reacting force of canon firing IS modeled with AFM.
The gun compensating is coded in FLCS as well to counteract this effect.
You can see the modeling if you fire gun out of ideal compensating speed….for instance fly mach 0.3 and fire…you should see AC yawing during firing…
You can also see gun effect in case of FLCS failure which randomly can make the gun compensating fail…
in external view , while firing you can see the tail compensating…
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You can also see gun effect in case of FLCS failure which randomly can make the gun compensating fail…
in external view , while firing you can see the tail compensating…
… Which is perfectly showed on the Articles AFM video presentation : http://www.f16man.com/videos/BMS_AFM.wmv
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loss of weight from bullets is not modeled in the FM as it has neglictible influence.
HOWEVER the reacting force of canon firing IS modeled with AFM.
The gun compensating is coded in FLCS as well to counteract this effect.
You can see the modeling if you fire gun out of ideal compensating speed….for instance fly mach 0.3 and fire…you should see AC yawing during firing…
You can also see gun effect in case of FLCS failure which randomly can make the gun compensating fail…
in external view , while firing you can see the tail compensating…
Hmm. I cant see the tail compensating, and I cant see any recoil when flying at Mach 0.3
SimTriggerSecondDetent is the callback being used.
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Hmm. I cant see the tail compensating, and I cant see any recoil when flying at Mach 0.3
SimTriggerSecondDetent is the callback being used.
IRRC there is a but in 4.32 where one of the two callback or DX input deos not trigger gun effect nor compensation…cant remember which one is not working…
I am pretty sure that the DX input works as it should
be aware that the tail compensation is very subtile movement , not huge deflection…