MICA flight path
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Mica IR (the EM probably too-and no husky state?)has a very small sensor range, you need to support your missiles…
Pls. check ICD58… Range 486080 feet… Check for ex. ICD 9 and ICD1. These are used by AA-11 and AIM-9M.
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Mica IR (the EM probably too-and no husky state?)has a very small sensor range, you need to support your missiles…
Supporting missiles is not the problem as you clearly see in the ACMI that the missile has a ‘lock’ on the target (green line in TacView).
Anyway, I’d love to see this problem adressed - I don’t see the point of using an extended range AIM-9P…IMHO the whole MICA IR is pointless because as I know BMS is not able to siumlate the RL LoaL BVR applying method insted gives very high unreal IR seeker to provide lock capability in BVR.
Well, what is the point of using AMRAAM or other highly clissified missiles then? I’m pretty sure there is no more than the third of units in BMS that behave as they actually are supposed to. A sim is full of compromose and I guess that the very early lock on the MICA IR is a pretty good compromise in order to represent its real supposed capacities, if we consider Link 16 and other datalink systems that would able to provide plane-missile link.
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Anyway, I’d love to see this problem adressed - I don’t see the point of using a 30nm AIM-9P…
I simply do not understand what you wished to explain here.
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I simply do not understand what you wished to explain here.
Pretty much the problem exposed in my first post: having a missile that is not even capable of hitting a target in its shoot enveloppe…
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Hi everyone,
I would like to add this to the topic:I also made some BVR/dogfight with the Mirage and i find that the MICA missile is willingly ultra nerfed against AIM-120 to give a chance to the F-16s to avoid them.
We clairly see the MICA speeds up to 2500kts and BAM, it slows down, like it deploys airbrakes or else before impact, a bit like the Mk82 SE/AIR before hitting the ground.
The worst is that its speed drops but it is not when it take altitude but when it’s falling. Even the AIM-120 does not lose speed as fast, even when its falling.Also I like to add that i was firing very close to the target on purpose to tee to what distance i will hit my target (and the IR).
I was firing at 15nm. I’m sorry but at 15nm with a AIM-120, the IA get destroyed, and more than that -> at 15nm : RUN AWAYWe could believe that the french missiles has been willingly nerfed to offset the advantage of the Mirage 2000 in dogfight against the F-16.
I was litteraly playing with him but in an F-16 (against another human, same level as me), I had diffucult to put myself in his 6.Link of the tape (VHS file)
http://ww1.blackstorm-universe.net/share-your-files.be/Fichiers/ACMI/TAPE0035.vhsPS: Same for the IR.
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I didn’t see what you saw regarding top airspeeds and quick slowdowns.
For Mica’s EM and IR, I saw top speeds of 1662, 1668, 1728, 1604, 1773, 1583, 1696, 1734.
Checked a few 120 speeds: 1286, 1402, 1374, 1320.
Don’t know why we see different speeds.
I didn’t see any abrupt slowdowns, but watching it I thought they didn’t have the legs of the 120.
I had the impression that regardless of speed, they didn’t seem to keep a track as well as 120’s. (?)
FWIW
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A quick word to conclude this topic :
Guidance gains of the MICA-IR are very bad, this is why the missile does not correct enough. Since it is lofted, you always have the impression it will pass very high. This is one of the most important issues with missiles ATM.
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does that mean you should try and fire it by taking into account the current flightpath of your target so that it doesnt have to correct as much?
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does that mean you should try and fire it by taking into account the current flightpath of your target so that it doesnt have to correct as much?
I do not think so. The issue is especially in terminal phase. (Cruz, correct me if I am wrong.)
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I do not think so. The issue is especially in terminal phase. (Cruz, correct me if I am wrong.)
Actually, in all phases
Even if you do anticipate, the missile will loft itself and self-induce a wrong course in the vertical plane (in order to gain more range). Its especially true for the MICA-IR, which combines poor guidance gains and a very high loft. Its present but clearly not as much on other missiles.
However, I strongly suspects it is the main thing allowing the “head-on avoidance” for the 120.
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
For most missiles, ideally, you would need more than just tweaking a bit gains and loft anyway.
More on that in 3-4 weeks :mrgreen:
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glad to hear it
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is there any fix for the MICA IR for 4.33? presumably a bit more gain (whatever that is) and a bit less loft would make it a more effective missile? the mirage is already quite weak in some aspects compared to the f-16 (particularly in max speed and slow speed handling)
The only flaw in the 2000 flight model IMO is the roll acceleration. It takes too much time to reach it’s max roll rate, whereas it is almost instantaneous on the real thing.
Otherwise, well handled, I find the Mirage to be vastly superior to the F-16 when it comes to getting quick shots ; a Viper might take the advantage over the 2000 on the long run, tho, thanks to its superior after-burning thrust (almost 2 tons more).
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indeed, the model is quite good and the mirage certainly has some great qualities, it is at a bit of a disadvantage in BVR however, simply based on its performance: it cannot go as fast as an F-16, and my impression is that it uses more fuel aswell. the EM seems to be pretty comparable to the 120, however the IR is essentially useless with its terrible head on performance. i engaged an F-16 yesterday in the FO campaign, had him running cold; uncaged my IR and switched my radar off to bait him into turning around, fox2’d x2 with decent separation when he did, and he just ended up chasing me down. when reviewing the ACMI, i saw that the IR’s missed him by very little coming down from high, and ended up chasing his tail for a mile or so…
i’m still enjoying flying the mirage, but i guess ill have to adapt my tactics in order to make the armament effective until its fixed…
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I do not agree with you on fuel consumption, they are roughly equal at the same engine regime, but the Mirage packs more punch at dry power : it can very easily reach cruise speed around Mach 0,90 - 0,95 without pulling too much on the gas. It also carries more fuel which really gives it an advantage both in range and loiter time (typical CAP loadout is 2x 2000L tanks, 1x 1300L, 6x MICA, for 16100 lbs in total, at FL360).
Where I agree with you is that when accelerating, the 2000 stays a long time in trans-sonic regime, due to its delta wing design. But once you are in pure supersonic flight domain, it accelerates very well and fast.
Another flaw of the delta wing are high altitude, high load factor turns, which will totally tear down your energy, so be careful with these. Use the burner before and during your turn. Otherwise, you can cruise at M0,92 with no difficulty at FL360 at MIL power.As for the MICA… I can only agree with you in the current state. But I’ll leave that to the experts on that subject !
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and my impression is that it uses more fuel aswell.
In clean configuration, at FL150 @ 540KTAS:
F-16CB52 -> 4620 lbs/H
M2000 -> 5040 lbs/H -
In clean configuration, at FL150 @ 540KTAS:
F-16CB52 -> 4620 lbs/min
M2000 -> 5040 lbs/minPer minute ? That’s a pretty serious fuel leak you got there DJ… :mrgreen:
So, there is indeed a very slightly higher fuel consumption for the 2000 (which is confirmed by official Snecma’s and PW’s engine consumption figures).
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… per hours sorry.
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another question re the mirage; specifically the 2000-5. does the cannon shoot slower rounds? I was offensive on a mig31 last night, and the amount of lead I had to pull was quite ridiculous - I was close enough to him, granted we were flying quite fast - 500kts or so - but it was really hard to get a solution because the pipper was off the hud…