Do I need aribrakes in normal missions
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Look for speed brakes. Not normally called air brakes.
If you didn’t need them, they would not be on the aircraft.
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Pretty sure in flight it will hold to the full 60 degrees without being in the held open position.
Pop the gear out however, and it will retract to 43 degrees unless you are holding them open.
Forgot it was tied to the gear (right MLG down and locked to be exact). Yeah, the retract to 43 degree is only in with the gear down. Good catch.
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Reason being, IRL 60 degrees extended speedbrakes plus 13.5 degrees 2 point aerobraking can cause the boards to contact the runway. 43 degrees boards with 2 point aerobraking is fine. 60 degrees with 3 point aerobraking is also fine.
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ok. Thanks for your answers. I’m a bit confused:
How can I apply airbrakes?
Are they equal to Speedbrake on the throttle?
And how do i see if Airbrake is applied? -
there is a candidate for some more dash 1 reading
check your doc folder and do some readingairbrake and speedbrake are the same
they are controlled from the throttle, the indicator is on the left aux console, outboard the gear panel -
Thanks Red Dog…
I even read most of the Dash and searched for Airbrake and Air Brake but got no hit -
@oho:
Thanks Red Dog…
I even read most of the Dash and searched for Airbrake and Air Brake but got no hitProbably because most people would equate airbrake with either Aerobraking or a jacobs brake… I think the two on the F-16 are speedbrakes and wheelbrakes in nomenclature.
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@oho:
ok. Thanks for your answers. I’m a bit confused:
How can I apply airbrakes?
Are they equal to Speedbrake on the throttle?
And how do i see if Airbrake is applied?1. Use the keys/buttons tied to callbacks AFBrakesIn and AFBrakesOut. There is also AFBrakesToggle. I can’t say what key or button unless I see your .key file.
2. Yes.
3. There is an indicator on the left aux. console between the landing gear panel, CMDS panel, and RWR panel. (BMS-1 page 28). -
I find that using the hotas AFBrakesIn and AFBrakesout commands for the speed brakes are much more useful than the toggle command. You can find more information on the speed brakes in BMS 4.32 Dash-1 page 25, 26, 31 and 133.
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How do you guys rejoin without using the airbrake…?
If you don’t want to map it on the HOTAS for some reason, you might just try shift + b.
And no, putting the gear down will not apply the speedbrake/ airbrake/ boards. It will lower the flaps though on the F-16.
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by flying a set speed for rejoin. That way you always know what speed the guy you’re rejoining with flies
that’s why SOPs are so important -
How do you guys rejoin without using the airbrake…?
Thats simply training
The best example for that is the AAR Vid of Dejaay. Sorry I don’t have the Link now, but the basic message is following:Always hold enough offset to your Lead/Tanker/etc., will get you a lot better feeling of the relative Speed to the ac in front of you. And try to fly a bit below the ac in front of you, will give you the possiblity to pull up a bit if youre coming in a bit to fast and you get to close.
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Who needs airbrakes when you can ……
->
… Do a barrel Roll !
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Who needs airbrakes when you can ……
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… Do a barrel Roll !
Best way to slowdown to avoid an overshoot.
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You hotdog
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Well, while SOP’s are great, I have made the experience that you have two big problems with those:
- There are pilots that just plain ignore them and
- there are pilots that do know them, but can’t fly what’s written in them or do not remember in that exact moment or do not have the SA to execute that.
Many of the guys I have flown with do give a sh*t about a fixed rejoin speed, most of them even don’t give their speed readout until asked. That doesn’t bother me however if they are a good lead when it comes to the fight. I can fly for myself. We are virtual pilots and many of them are just here for the fun of flying, so I won’t critize that. I’m not perfect either.
Therefore, it got second nature to me to close up in buster with a lateral offset of a few hundred feet to be able to guess the closure speed better, close up as fast as I can and then pop the speedbrake when I’m there until I’m down to maybe 10kts closure, which will give me a good speed match given the time they need to retract.
It works most of the time, but fails when for example i’m #4 and #3 has the wrong speed in relation to #1. In this case, I’m using a horizontal or vertical weave (vertical up is preferred if visual can be maintained and my wingman, if any, doesn’t get confused by that).
Barrel roll does look cool though.
But really, I can’t imagine a life without airbrakes. Even with that external airbrake called ECM, it became so much second nature I really do rely on it.
However, we fly clean birds in training with our students. The clean bird will not bleed that much speed as a combat loadout with ECM, 2x370, 6x AAM for example when reducing power. I am using that way more frequently on the clean birds.
But even with the combat loadout- that’s something that definitely belongs on the HOTAS.
In high altitudes, the engine won’t response that fast- so I’m using that a lot there too. For me, the airbrake is somehow essential.After the other postings, I think you are using similar tactics than I do- lateral offset, fixed or known speeds and weaving in any direction if you’re way too fast
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- There are pilots that just plain ignore them and
- there are pilots that do know them, but can’t fly what’s written in them or do not remember in that exact moment or do not have the SA to execute that.
Tobiasa, time to change squadron maybe
Many of the guys I have flown with do give a sh*t about a fixed rejoin speed, most of them even don’t give their speed readout until asked. That doesn’t bother me however if they are a good lead when it comes to the fight.
contradiction to me, how can you be a good lead if you don’t give a sh*t about fixed rejoin speed? Doesn’t work for me at least
Virtual flying doesn’t mean bad flying. It can be well executed if you find the right guys to fly with. And still then mistakes will be made
but to each his own.And for the record I pop speedbrakes too when I realise I was a bit too aggressive rejoining
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@Red:
Tobiasa, time to change squadron maybe
contradiction to me, how can you be a good lead if you don’t give a sh*t about fixed rejoin speed? Doesn’t work for me at least
Indeed, that’s part of being a good lead. But some guys do give a good lead when it comes to fighting and judging the overall situation, but don’t tell that much where they are going. I have pretty basic goals when flying: I want to stay alive. So, if my lead goes all the way forward and I can’t keep up 'cause I still have my bombs- I tell him, and if he refuses to do something about it, I can still run away and survive…
If I do have a disciplined lead, i will try my very best to be a disciplined wingman. Having a good lead and being a disciplined wingman, you can go through places where you wouldn’t even think about when flying alone. My most thrilling flights have been with those.
I fly with those seeking for realism and enjoy it a lot, but I also fly with those just looking for fun and bloodrage which is fun from time to time as well.
When flying with the “arcade” type of pilots, I just set my will to survive above the discipline and I’m fine with that
When I’m lead, I try to do the best I can and see how much my wingie can do. When meeting up with pilots with more flight hours / experience, I usually let them fly as lead. So, we all get the best of it.As for the squad- we have both types of pilots. We have some guys that are there for the fun and some that want to keep up a professional level. It’s a bit tricky to get both types together, because those with the high realism attitude don’t like the missing discipline of the fun guys and those don’t like the borders and limits the realism guys do set.
It does work if you get the right people together, most of the time even if you seperate them into different flights in the same package.Especially those seeking for higher realism are always interested in flying with other squads. I would really like to make some flights with the belgian tigers for example. Or would like to get a flight up with those french mirage guys (but can’t fly the mirage… ).
My squad is the right one for me, but if someone wants to put up a flight and needs some guys to join, I could provide a four-ship with ease most of the time I think.
We’d provide some coops too, but none of us interested in it does have the bandwidth to host >10 people…@Red:
Virtual flying doesn’t mean bad flying. It can be well executed if you find the right guys to fly with. And still then mistakes will be made
but to each his own.And for the record I pop speedbrakes too when I realise I was a bit too aggressive rejoining
Indeed, you just have to find the right people for setting up a good flight. I’m always interested in that
As for the record: Usually, I am one of the guys having pulled the modest G’s and burned the smallest amount of fuel at the end of the flight. But on the rejoin, I catch myself popping those boards out on a regular base because I rejoined too aggressive
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It is possible but not very forgiving as youll need those brakes to kill speed. Dont think i ever did a landing without them.