Sustaining High G
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
…“help” is relative. Also - note the added strain of having a JHMCS helmet on your head…more weight = more worse. This is another reason I’m not a real fan of TIR…and don’t care about looking at my dead six. My plan for a 270 degree surround is an attempt to mimic some of these effects by having to actually move my head naturally. And even so, I’m not going to be under G so I’ll probably be able to look further than I should be able to…the problem I haven’t quite noodled out is range of uplook…but I have some thoughts, involving 1-DOF head tracking.
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That’s one reason why I’ll look into the options to convert my TN 3D gaming vest driver/hardware into connecting it with my G-suit to have it inflate when pulling high G’s in the sim. Of course not inflating as much as real life because when not actually pulling G’s that could cause serious health issues. But enough to have additional SA on the matter; plus have 8-9G pinch hard enough to feel discomfort to keep me from doing too unrealistic BFM sessions
It’s not so much a pinching feeling but more a long, sustained pressure on your upper body. It’s like a fat dude standing on your chest and just pressing you down in your seat and make your spine a few inches shorter.
At least that’s how it felt for me.I don’t think we were pulling any more than 5.5G when I took this shot. We had come up in a vertical maneuver (for the classic sky-rocketing shot) but we had slightly messed up our timing, so the F-16C pulled out of the climb into a loop and rolled away. Taking us slightly by surprise, so we ended up above him, trying to keep up in the D-model, pulling quite hard to keep near him. This was shot through the top of the canopy but all I did was keeping the shutter pressed (10 frames per second to the rescue). There was no skill behind it, I could not move my camera (Canon 1D with 24-105mm on it, a combined weight of 2,3 KG so it felt like something of 13 KG or something) even if wanted to try it. I couldn’t even more my arms for that matter. I can’t even imagine how anyone can actually do anything at 7+ Gs?
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
What you’re referring to is this:
4.5.9 Head Positioning.
4.5.9.1 Improper head position during high G defensive turns is a common error. The first instinct is to attempt to support the weight of your head and helmet using your neck muscles alone. This is basically impossible, and can lead to serious muscle injury at high G levels. Equally unacceptable is the practice of looking at the adversary under low G, then looking forward during the break turn (High G), then looking back to reacquire the adversary after the speed and G bleed down. You cannot exploit a pursuit error you do not see.
4.5.9.2 The best technique is to use the seat headrest to support your helmet during the turn. The following example is for a right turning break:
4.5.9.2.1 As you begin the roll to Lv on/slightly low, rotate your upper torso about 45 degrees to the right, and lean your upper body slightly to the right. Turn your head to the right another 45 degrees or so and tilt it back just enough that you can see the adversary on the reference line with your eyeballs at their extreme upward and right slave limits. This position will place the right side of your helmet against the lower left side of the ejection seat headrest. Let the headrest support the weight of your helmet, and you will be able to turn very hard in relative comfort while watching the adversary. By rolling your helmet against the headrest and moving your eyes, you can follow the adversary through a wide range of flight paths. (See Figure 4.29, Head Positioning.)
Official book answer
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What you’re referring to is this:
Official book answer
Notice that the pilot in this picture is not wearing an HMCS helmet…trust me folks, this makes a difference…
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If you look up before you pull does the g help you keep you head back?
Your head would be forced back, many times the high G is only done shortly, so the pilot can look at another angle/location quickly there after.
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It’s not so much a pinching feeling but more a long, sustained pressure on your upper body. It’s like a fat dude standing on your chest and just pressing you down in your seat and make your spine a few inches shorter.
At least that’s how it felt for me.I don’t think we were pulling any more than 5.5G when I took this shot. We had come up in a vertical maneuver (for the classic sky-rocketing shot) but we had slightly messed up our timing, so the F-16C pulled out of the climb into a loop and rolled away. Taking us slightly by surprise, so we ended up above him, trying to keep up in the D-model, pulling quite hard to keep near him. This was shot through the top of the canopy but all I did was keeping the shutter pressed (10 frames per second to the rescue). There was no skill behind it, I could not move my camera (Canon 1D with 24-105mm on it, a combined weight of 2,3 KG so it felt like something of 13 KG or something) even if wanted to try it. I couldn’t even more my arms for that matter. I can’t even imagine how anyone can actually do anything at 7+ Gs?
Great shot Tazzy.
Yeah I mis communicated I think being non-native English speaker here
By pinching I not really ment the pinching action like the short nip in the leg, but more translated from Dutch (Flemish) that it’s a pain sensation making you uncomfortable but not in real real pain, if you understand what I’m trying to say :). When I would have the blatters inflate as much as you actually get that feeling like when pulling higher G’s (I’ve experienced +6/-2 in acro with a Pitts Special), I don’t think it would be healthy because your not actually pulling them behind your computer. So I’m looking for a discomfort feeling, close to something real, but not dangerous. -
Notice that the pilot in this picture is not wearing an HMCS helmet…trust me folks, this makes a difference…
Indeed, pilots told me they already have a huge difference with NVG’s on, let a lone a full JHMCS.
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I recently recorded this dogfight with the ai and it made me realize how far removed sim fights are from the real thing. In this video you can see I pretty much sustained max g throughout the majority of the fight, even exceeding 11g in a roll at one point.
Obviously a true 1v1 guns fight these days would be…extremely rare. A high speed ACM environment with missiles is probably the extent of modern knife fights. But for the sake of argument, I’m wondering how long a real fighter pilot is expected sustain such high g maneuvering and still keep their head up.
Opinions? Facts?
4.33 finnaly got good G stress modelng. In the old model you could pull 60 sec 9G turn, which was insane. In original F4.0 was similar model to current BMS4 model. To me this was the one of the most long awaited upgrade of Falcon, the old model simply ruined the modeling of dogfigth…
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Could be a good idea to reduce the ability to move the POV in the sim with Gs increasing…
Amen. I support any similar upgade. Of course AI also should suffer from this.
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Great shot Tazzy.
Yeah I mis communicated I think being non-native English speaker here
By pinching I not really ment the pinching action like the short nip in the leg, but more translated from Dutch (Flemish) that it’s a pain sensation making you uncomfortable but not in real real pain, if you understand what I’m trying to say :). When I would have the blatters inflate as much as you actually get that feeling like when pulling higher G’s (I’ve experienced +6/-2 in acro with a Pitts Special), I don’t think it would be healthy because your not actually pulling them behind your computer. So I’m looking for a discomfort feeling, close to something real, but not dangerous.I’ve often wondered the same thing, seeing as a growing number of cockpit builders are beginning to incorporate G-chaps (and sometimes vests) into their setups. I’ve never worn them myself, but I can’t help but think that doing this could be dangerous just sitting there at 1 G…and more so if one has an undiagnosed cardiac or vascular condition. But not having had experience with them in a real jet, I wouldn’t be sure just how to set up safely but convincingly. I’ll be interested, if you do this…
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there is quite a bit of literature for those inclined to read up on the challenges of cockpit design to facilitate operation in both high G or asymmetrical exotic designs.
I’ll let all the “experts” do that though.
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How? … AI do not use TrackIR.
In DB has FOV values for eyeball modelling, somehow should be restriced. If only suffers from SA related issues it can cause inbalance against AI…
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In DB has FOV values for eyeball modelling, somehow should be restriced. If only suffers from SA related issues it can cause inbalance against AI…
Do the AI bogeys get affected by the blackout model as well? And or become able to be “hassled into submission” or otherwise get “tired”? I should think so…
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Do the AI bogeys get affected by the blackout model as well?
Normally yes : set g_bAIGloc 1 // Toggles AI GLoc
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I’ve often wondered the same thing, seeing as a growing number of cockpit builders are beginning to incorporate G-chaps (and sometimes vests) into their setups. I’ve never worn them myself, but I can’t help but think that doing this could be dangerous just sitting there at 1 G…and more so if one has an undiagnosed cardiac or vascular condition. But not having had experience with them in a real jet, I wouldn’t be sure just how to set up safely but convincingly. I’ll be interested, if you do this…
Yep i brought it up before, doesnt sound healthy to apply pressure to restrict blood flow from the brain at 1G, maybe some of the pilots here could ask their doctors and give an informed answer on how bad it is.
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If it is only a light feedback, I do not think it is bad … not more than a slim jean … but if it stops blood circulation, this is not good for sure!
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If it is only a light feedback, I do not think it is bad … not more than a slim jean … but if it stops blood circulation, this is not good for sure!
concur