AI in cahoots with the ATO

[cptmtge]

I have been reporting how at the most inopportune times the ATO will have no flights tasked, or allow me to change the flight start times, and then suddenly a massive red strike, sead and escort strikes on virtually undefended blue airbases. Here above you can see it about to happen. There is over an hour between barcaps being tasked by the AI suddenly and just at that time during that window a large red strike force with SU30MKK sead escorts, iL28 and SU25 bombers, Mig21 and Mig23 suddenly appear and you can rest assured they are going to shut down Kangnung AB and there is nothing I can do about it. Look at the squadron missions already tasked very close together in time and then suddenly an hour+ of zilch and AMAZINGLY the reds have a strike force enroute. No other flights close by to support, no intercept missions available and basically the ATO advising me to drop my drawers and bend over. Yes I realize some enjoy that feeling yet I do not. The AI can’t beat me in a fair fight so it’s going to cheat. Therefore I respectfully request BMS Dev Mr. AI step forward (fully clothed preferably) and explain wtf is the deal here and have that 2LT in charge of the ATO assume the position and grab his ankles…

[jhook]

I think the devs have already stated the the AI is porked to a certain degree. There have been talks about the AI before being too weak or too strong (in this case). They also mentioned that an AI re-work would be very involved and take quite some time to modify properly. So, we are left with what we have now for the time being. It is possible that 4.3.3 will have some AI re-work done. Don’t hold your breath, but it is possible. And if not for 4.3.3, then at some other point there will be AI re-work done. I do believe it is a priority, but you have to look at the work involved and what extensive work needs to be done. FBMS is liken to a spider web. If you adjust some of the strands in the web, then other parts of the web come undone.

[haukka81]

Just manually task cap patrols etc… Set 1 or 2 squadrons to manual control And make cap flights And you need to take those squadrons out of hq control right before you start campaing

[jhook]

@haukka81:

Just manually task cap patrols etc… Set 1 or 2 squadrons to manual control And make cap flights And you need to take those squadrons out of hq control right before you start campaing

Yep,

HQ does not task with specific priorities in response to the fluid developments of the campaign. Best bet is to turn HQ control off. Not a guarantee, but it will allow for you to set priorities.

[cptmtge]

Oh yes of course HQ off

[Dee-Jay]

HQ off or just keeping few squadrons under your control in case of spare a/c needed etc …

AI remains AI, and will always be AI … you can’t expect it to be “as smart as a human”. In some situation, management is simply totally off, or stupid. This is also what is making BMS’s campaigns interesting, human inputs are needed in various aspect to make it better, optimized or simply not too dumb. Up to you to study & understand how it works, and manage it to make not soooo stupid.
PAK, priorities, add package, cancel flight, set by HQ buttons … etc … are made on that purpose.

[haukka81]

@Dee-Jay:

HQ off or just keeping few squadrons under your control in case of spare a/c needed etc …

AI remains AI, and will always be AI … you can’t expect it to be “as smart as a human”. In some situation, management is simply totally off, or stupid. This is also what is making BMS’s campaigns interesting, human inputs are needed in various aspect to make it better, optimized or simply not too dumb. Up to you to study & understand how it works, and manage it to make not soooo stupid.
PAK, priorities, add package, cancel flight, set by HQ buttons … etc … are made on that purpose.

Small idea for future, would it be possible to separate hq settings, so we could manage paks manually And other options would be still under hq control , pak"s are number one problem for ai, too early deepstrikes etc…

Yes , AI will be always bit stupid but AF got it some way better than we have in bms now so maybe some light improvements can be done.

PS . I don’t mean to whine or anything. I just have only Stock falcon 4 And AF so those are where i can compare.

But small steps and someday we have much better AI.

Red side too so we have chalenge

[cptmtge]

Yes I realize from many years of playing how dumb the AI can be and have practiced and tweaked the ATO more than most. My point is not to complain about it but to point out specific issues in the hope that someday they might be fixed. Thank you for your efforts.

[Eagle-Eye]

1 evening in Korea…

2 hours later…

Don’t know your thoughts on this, but I’m fairly confident we have air superiority… AI is probably just showing it off.

[cptmtge]

I have never seen that probably because I fly using rookie for forces level. Looks crowded.

[SDsc0rch]

@jhook:

I think the devs have already stated the the AI is porked to a certain degree. There have been talks about the AI before being too weak or too strong (in this case). They also mentioned that an AI re-work would be very involved and take quite some time to modify properly. So, we are left with what we have now for the time being. It is possible that 4.3.3 will have some AI re-work done. Don’t hold your breath, but it is possible. And if not for 4.3.3, then at some other point there will be AI re-work done. I do believe it is a priority, but you have to look at the work involved and what extensive work needs to be done. FBMS is liken to a spider web. If you adjust some of the strands in the web, then other parts of the web come undone.

this being the case (that it is difficult to modify the campaign ATO AI) and taking into account the other replies in this thread (turn HQ off - humans assume a more “hands on” approach to ATO generation) perhaps we should focus on anything we can do to help out the human players - ?

such as…

• start the campaign with as much “HQ off” as possible

• enter the campaign editor UI with the clock “off” (the AI is “working” in the background as long as the clock is running - the first thing i do when i enter the CE UI is turn off the clock)

• start the campaign with the clock stopped (give humans a chance to get ahead of the AI and make assignments)

.
.
.

• any other suggestions ---- ??

[Dee-Jay]

@haukka81:

Small idea for future, would it be possible to separate hq settings, so we could manage paks manually And other options would be still under hq control , pak"s are number one problem for ai, too early deepstrikes etc…

Yes , AI will be always bit stupid but AF got it some way better than we have in bms now so maybe some light improvements can be done.

PS . I don’t mean to whine or anything. I just have only Stock falcon 4 And AF so those are where i can compare.

I do not understand? … there is nothing that we can’t make under BMS comparing to AF except taking the control of ground units. In BMS, you can synchronize a given squadron or not to HQ (in AF it is all or nothing via the Priorities/PAK window)

[haukka81]

@Dee-Jay:

I do not understand? … there is nothing that we can’t make under BMS comparing to AF except taking the control of ground units. In BMS, you can synchronize a given squadron or not to HQ (in AF it is all or nothing via the Priorities/PAK window)

Yes, but i mean that it would be nice if we could just adjust pak’s manually and rest (target type, mission type) two settings would be still in HQ control.

And i just think that AF has bit better ATO or Mission generation AI , i may be wrong too … need to test and compare more. (time will gold memories , and it almoust year since i last tryed bit AF… (flight model feels weird after bms adv model )

No hard feelings, my limited english limits to explain things like i think em :?

[Dee-Jay]

Yes, but i mean that it would be nice if we could just adjust pak’s manually and rest (target type, mission type) two settings would be still in HQ control.

I am really sorry mate … I still do not understand (?) … adjusting PAK manually … we can. Or you mean ons specific setting per each area?

[Cloud 9]

He’s asking that when you start the Campaign, that the player would be able to adjust the PAK map priorities, and by doing so, it doesn’t affect the Set by HQ for the Target Type/Mission Type settings either.

[Dee-Jay]

@ Sorry Cloud, I’ve edited accidentally your post and I’m unable to retore your entire post. Sorry for that.

@Cloud:

He’s asking that when you start the Campaign, that the player would be able to adjust the PAK map priorities, and by doing so, it doesn’t affect the Set by HQ for the Target Type/Mission Type settings either.

Oky.

But is doesn’t really change anything since those settings (HQ) are scripted in the campaign definition. So, HQ settings doesn’t really change dynamically and doesn’t depends on the actual situation.

[Cloud 9]

@Dee-Jay:

@ Sorry Cloud, I’ve edited accidentally your post and I’m unable to retore your entire post. Sorry for that.

Why in the world would you edit my post??

And there is concern that it actually would change things as I have checked, due to the fact that if the Target Type/Mission Types are changed to not being controlled by HQ, that in different postures during the campaign, Offense/Defense, then does that affect the fact that the 5 .pri files are being utilized, Attrit/CAS/Intdict/Offense/Defense would be followed, or does it stay on the default setting once you change the PAK Map priorities and they also get changed from controlled by HQ.

Like I said, it would have to be looked into further. I don’t have the code, so I don’t know how the .pri files are being utilized nowadays.

Still don’t know why you would edit my post???

C9

[cptmtge]

once you change a PAK or mission priorities slider the set by HQ is off. And once you click on start the campaign the ato will generate missions hence it is crucial to edit the ATO before starting a new campaign. Those are your options.

[Cloud 9]

@cptmtge:

once you change a PAK or mission priorities slider the set by HQ is off. And once you click on start the campaign the ato will generate missions hence it is crucial to edit the ATO before starting a new campaign. Those are you options.

At this point, we’re not worried about ATO controlled missions, I’m talking about otherwise.

But I do understand your concern also, because it does work into the equation.

C9

[Dee-Jay]

@Cloud:

Why in the world would you edit my post??
C9

Having moderation rights, I simply hit accidentally EDIT instead of REPLY WITH QUOTE. Too late when I’ve realized my mistake.