SDB Question

[adamant365]

Hello All,

I fragged myself an AI mission to go after a stationary FROG site in N. Korea. I wanted to work on my SDB delivery skills. Here’s what I did:

1. Pulled up the MARK page on the DED.
2. Designated target one with TGP - TMS-up to transfer coordinates to steer 26.
3. Designated target two through four with TGP - TMS-up to steer 27 - 29.
4. Exit MARK page.
5. Enter STPT page and manually select steer 26.
6. Verify SDBs are aligned and launch parameters met (JIZ>). Verified coords of STP 27 - 29.
7. Pickle –> next WPT (to 27) --> pickle --> next WPT (to 28 ) --> pickle --> next WPT (to 29) --> pickle

Only target one was hit. The FROGS didn’t move.

Do I have to CZ when selecting the first mark steerpoint? Do I have to CZ after selecting each subsequent steerpoint? I would have thought that TMS-upping and therefore having the coordinates assigned to each steer (26 - 29) using the MARK page would be enough.

I know this is probably an SPI issue (my fault) but can’t figure it out. Sometimes I get SDBs to work perfectly, sometimes I don’t. I very infrequently get hits using the MARK page coordinates. I don’t like using pre-planned points for objects that aren’t definitely permanent (buildings, bridges, etc.).

[Agave_Blue]

I CZ at every opportunity …. whenever I want to use an undesignated SPI as my intended launch point. Just to be sure, even though sometimes it’s unnecessary.

Any time the CZ is highlighted on your MFD you must CZ if your intent is to launch on a steerpoint/markpoint.

One thing to watch is that in process of making the markpoint (in your examples, effectively making steerpoints 26 - 29) you also have to CZ when you command those to be your current steerpoint (M-Sel). Again, the CZ should be highlighted on the MFD, you hit the CZ button and it un-highlights.

[razo]

were you at maximum range or what was it?

What was your speed and altitude?

[adamant365]

Speed was approximately .70 mach (was definitely >0.60), range was about dead center of the DLZ (if that’s what it’s called for SDBs) and altitude was about 18K. The azimuth line was center HUD as well so I don’t think it was an aiming issue, although I know the SDBs are fairly forgiving in that respect.

It was probably a cursor zero issue as Agave mentioned. I’m going to set up a TE and do some more practice.

[soldano]

It happened to me at first, when none of my SDBs reached its predesignated targets, I take care now of not launching at maximun range, and get rid of all deltas that may have been introduced to SP1, previous to launch each SDB, now I have no problems

[Terminator]

@adamant365:

The azimuth line was center HUD as well so I don’t think it was an aiming issue, although I know the SDBs are fairly forgiving in that respect.

Did you enter an attack azimuth? If the attack azimuth is way of, it could cause some serious problems. I think 0 should cause the weapon to fligh straight to the target, not sure if this is the case for SDBs though….

[Agave_Blue]

@Terminator:

Did you enter an attack azimuth? If the attack azimuth is way of, it could cause some serious problems. I think 0 should cause the weapon to fligh straight to the target, not sure if this is the case for SDBs though….

You won’t get ‘JIZ>’ if the attach azimuth and or RoB is unobtainable.

[thereisnotime]

you cannot terminal guidance like a JDAM on a SDB with STPTs and multiples, you’ll only get good effects on targets by painting the bombs in actively with the laser and the TGP. those aren’t meant to be stand off jdams, they are meant to kill snipers on roofs while leaving the building up. Sometimes they even just connect the same guidance to concrete bombs, same difference.

So no, you did it wrong, those aren’t meant for multiple releases, they are designed to let you loiter in CAS environs and get JTAC paint or Vis references to a target using the TGP and laser once you can make visual target acquisition.

If you however, insist on using them as such, you can estimate a spacing and try and line up on a 12-6 run and just pickle at the lead of the group. They aren’t meant for that, they are meant to kill soft targets with minimum collateral.

[Frederf]

SDB/JDAM (exception GBU-54) are not laser-guided weapons.

SDB is a SPI-seeking weapon so wherever the FCR cursors (TGP, etc.) are at launch is the target. You don’t strictly have to have no system deltas but obviously if you’re relying on preplanned steers for location you don’t want any. By the way you absolutely don’t need to lock FCR to launch a JDAM or SDB at a preplanned coordinate, hovering cursor (even with the radar off) is fine.

I have rippled off SDBs in rather short order on several targets. It’s not like SPICE which has the locations burned into the weapons for true one button-many target capability but INC/DEC switch each launch is quite rapid.

JIZ is only for the stronger launch requirements. If it can’t meet the set ROB/AZ settings but can still reach the target kinematically it won’t show JIZ. The JIZ calculations are also admittedly not the most precise by the BMS manual so outside of the heart of the envolope take it with a grain of salt.

Generating the mark points obviously you’re going to have some system deltas (unless you use snow plow which has temporary deltas just for that). That has nothing to do with the accuracy of your recorded mark locations. However when you go to use those marks you’d want to clear the deltas (CZ) such that your cursors are on top of your mark coords. Tacview replay of the attack would be very helpful to compare the mark L/L with the weapon L/L at terminus.

I would also recommend making use of the tandem-trail feature to deliver 2 SDB per DMPI. It would save you some mark point making. If I remember the spacing setting is supposed to be between the weapons while it might be double that for BMS by mistake (500’ spacing, weapons 1000’ apart).

[Tomcat84]

@thereisnotime:

you cannot terminal guidance like a JDAM on a SDB with STPTs and multiples, you’ll only get good effects on targets by painting the bombs in actively with the laser and the TGP. those aren’t meant to be stand off jdams, they are meant to kill snipers on roofs while leaving the building up. Sometimes they even just connect the same guidance to concrete bombs, same difference.

So no, you did it wrong, those aren’t meant for multiple releases, they are designed to let you loiter in CAS environs and get JTAC paint or Vis references to a target using the TGP and laser once you can make visual target acquisition.

If you however, insist on using them as such, you can estimate a spacing and try and line up on a 12-6 run and just pickle at the lead of the group. They aren’t meant for that, they are meant to kill soft targets with minimum collateral.

I don’t know where you have gotten this notion but you are way off.

why on earth would this weapon be able to fly dozens of miles if you had to be overhead to designate it.
It is designed for multiple releases in one pass and definitely not just for soft targets.

As mentioned by the rest it does sound like a CZ issue. It should not be highlighted if you are dropping on a mark or preplanned point. And of course make sure your TGP is not in any kind of track.

Also frederf, I think that spacing bug has been fixed in the last update. I reported it before that and think it was taken care of.

[Snowman]

Was your SOI on the TGP while launching?
And point lock/ area mode?

[Decimalminimal]

@Snowman:

Was your SOI on the TGP while launching?
And point lock/ area mode?

Point lock or area mode,not required. SOI in the TGP not required either if the FCR is the SOI.
Maybe he porked the markpoints? Not using the correct GPS coordinates?

I will do Video in a hour or two.

[thereisnotime]

if that is how they are intended to work, that’s not how they are currently working.

Tried to replicate the OP, same result, bunch of misses. Only the guidance from the L TGP one hit, which is why I use them like that. mark, SOI TGP, mark, mark, mark, change stpts, pickle, pickle pickle, all misses.

You can standoff with the TGP which is what I generally do, they still glide in. I usually don’t pickle below 30k, usually launch 15+ miles away and loiter till impact. If they are meant to work like JDAMS, well, someone needs to outline the process of using the ICP mark, because I tried it in response to direction and it’s not working like that.

[Dee-Jay]

@thereisnotime:

if that is how they are intended to work, that’s not how they are currently working.

SDB don’t need any TGP. They are GPS/INS guided munitions and it works like this in game.

[AttackRabbit]

You’re introducing a system Delta every time you slew the TGP. After you’ve finished making your marks you need to TMS down to clear the point track, go to expanded FOV on the TGP and then CZ. CZ should un-highlight. This will clear out the system Delta. After you’ve done that, step through your markpoints quickly to verify they’re good and then pickle them off at each Markpoint. The system Delta feature was first modeled in 4.33 (I think), so tutorials from earlier versions don’t include it. You can do this for any IGM, not just the SDBs. The greatest benefit from the SDBs is their ridiculously long range. It’s pretty “gamey” but you can take out 8 Fan Song radars in a single sortie with them and barely cross the FLOT.

Rabbit

[Terminator]

@Dee-Jay:

SDB don’t need any TGP. They are GPS/INS guided munitions and it works like this in game.

Confirmed and works as advertised (not that there was any doubt from my side [emoji6]), wingman and me took out a complete SA-3 AD battalion tonight, 16 SDB with a 100% hit ratio.

@adamant365:

5. Enter STPT page and manually select steer 26.
6. Verify SDBs are aligned and launch parameters met (JIZ>). Verified coords of STP 27 - 29.
7. Pickle –> next WPT (to 27) --> pickle --> next WPT (to 28 ) --> pickle --> next WPT (to 29) --> pickle

Only target one was hit.

Like mentioned by yourself and other people, must be SPI related. But since you have a TGP loaded this is easy to check. When you select your marked STPT, each target should be dead center on the TGP, if not, you messed something up. First thing is to check if CZ is highlighted on the TGP screen.

Edit:
Rabbit’s “attack” was faster [emoji3]

[thereisnotime]

Still learning, not an expert, but I guess my experience with them is out of date, trying to learn.

Let me ask this, how do you find targets visually, the TGP, or the FCR? I can’t even get my head around that. Didn’t mean to interject wrongly, as I stated I’m ill informed and still learning. I can’t fathom. I usually just find a column and fling em spaced out by about 50 feet.

[Quasi_Stellar]

The SDB won’t track on moving mud. So if the column suddenly decides it needs to move 50 feet…… So, if you are locating targets with the FCR in GMT, this is not the weapon of choice…

[Arty]

1. What are SDB ?
2. What the initials mean?
Thank you in advance.
Sorry if its said and i missed it.

Edit: 1. what is answered by DeeJay as i see.
Thank you DeeJay.

Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[Quasi_Stellar]

Small Diameter Bomb… GBU-39